Question re: Swaging Lubricants

[JDNC]

I've thought about swaging for over 30 years and now have finally I've got around to it. I received my 30 cal steel dies back in Oct '10 from Richard Corbin and have a few questions regarding swaging lubricant. Corbin's lube is (I think) 1:1 anhydrous lanolin & castor oil. I've noticed that most on this forum are just lanolin or a mixture using vasoline. It also appears most are using a different lube for their cores. My questions are as follows...

1. How does vasoline and castor oil (mixture with lanolin)compare?
2. Why is a different lube used for core swaging(Mystery Oil, etc.)?

Any input would be appreciated. Great forum!

Thanks, JD

[johnboy]

when squirting cores from lead, it is essential to use a lube that is easily removed (water soluble) like RCBS lube. It does not take a lot of lube to squirt cores, and it is essential that they get clean. Pointing up is a different situation and lube is most important.

[JDNC]

johnboy,

I thought maybe a lower viscosity oil was needed for some reason for core swaging. I had also read somewhere that some were using RCBS lube as it was water soluble.

I'm just getting started and have been reading all I can find in reference to swaging. I just want to get started in the right direction. I've also read that some are using lard oil and neets foot oil also in mixtures of lanoline for bullet swaging. My only concern with some of these oils (mainly lard) is maybe traces of salt which could possibly cause rust in dies if not cleaned out before storing. I appreciate the input.

Thanks, JD

[Steve in Wa]

JD,

I was having some difficulty using a 50/50 solution as you describe. Bullets not ejecting from the point up die properly, folds, and very large pressure rings ( .0015" on a .308 bullet. I have scoured the forums and started experimenting with a small batch of lube measured out of a syringe 6cc of pure lanolin and 2cc of vasoline. (3:1) with one small batch of .224 bullets (500) it seems to work a little better. I am going to try a 3:2 and 1:1 as well mixing up only enough for a couple of bullet runs to find what works best in my B&A steel dies.

I hope this helps you find a lube that makes good bullets in your dies.

Steve

If your shooting a pistol in a rifle match and not in last place, it is a good day indeed.

[JDNC]

Steve, that's what I would like to know. I know that over the years that probably the 1:1 ratio lanolin and castor oil worked ok, but there is a reason some of the top BR quality bullet makers are using something else (neetsfoot oil, lard, vasoline etc.) and different ratios. I would like to know everyone's experiences with different lubes for core and bullet swaging. I hope you will post your results in reference to different ratios of vasoline as you are using steel dies also. I don't know if different cal's require different lubes or not. I know that carbide dies probably use a different amount of lube, but does steel dies require a different lube?

As for pressure rings, I have only swaged about 100 or so bullets and those shanks were running at 0.308 with pressure rings 0.3083-0.3084. I also swaged some by lubing with my fingers but never miked any. I might add that these were RBT bullets and a few FB bullets. I tumbled 100 1.150 J4's with about 1gr of the lube that Richard Corbin sent with my dies, which I think is 1:1 lanolin/castor oil and I think this too much. I also used this lube to swage the cores. As for ejection, I really had no problems but my point up die (8S) has a 0.091 ejection pin. I hope to get another point-up die with a smaller pin in the near future and that will probably be completely another animal.

Again thanks for the input and any help out there is appreciated.

JD

[DanH]

JD, if you go to BenchrestCentral and search bullet making there is a lot of good stuff there.

Dan Honert

[JDNC]

Dan, I just left BR Central's site and found some info there.

Thanks, JD

[Steve in Wa]

JD

I used more lube than that I think, if memory serves me, was 22-25 gr /1000 for 30 caliber 1.08" jackets in a thimblers tumbler. for 22/6mm it's around 15 gr / bucket (sometimes 2100). I tried to equalize the amount of lube used to the total area that I was trying to lube.

As far as cores go I squirt them with a dose of wd40 and drizzle some motor oil on them and tumble by hand with a clean t-shirt rag before swaging. Then into a boiling water vat with either simple green or Krud Kutter to de-grease. When they come out of that they flash dry on a clean bath towel and I set them aside to oxidize slightly before continuing. That ensures they are free of oil contaminates.

I'll keep you guys informed on the lube experements as they unfold.

Steve

If your shooting a pistol in a rifle match and not in last place, it is a good day indeed.

[JDNC]

Do you guys add lube after core seating before pointing-up? If so, do you degrease and add more lube and tumble again and if not, do you tumble the cored jackets again to redistribute the lube prior to pointing-up?

[Steve in Wa]

JD,

Lube the jackets before core seating. Putting the cored jackets in a tumbler can cause problems since the jackets are tapered, the cores can come out even after being pressed in. Because of the constant banging around they can become loose and fall out. After pointing the cores are really locked in place.

Make sure when your seating the core that you place them in a clean container before pointing. CLEANLINESS is the watchword. Anything getting on the jackets after lubing will end up inside the pointing die and abrasives cut better with lube.

Steve

[JDNC]

It never occurred to me that the cores might get loose from tumbling but you are right, the core is tapered.

My way of thinking (and thinking hurts my head) is that after core seating most of the remaing lube is pushed to the base of the jacket and it somehow needs to be redistributed over the jacket prior to pointing up. I guess the best way would probably just mix around with your hand in the container before pointing.

This whole bullet swaging thing is causing this old 55 yr old to think way too much!

JD

[DanH]

JD,

Lube the jackets before core seating. Putting the cored jackets in a tumbler can cause problems since the jackets are tapered, the cores can come out even after being pressed in. Because of the constant banging around they can become loose and fall out. After pointing the cores are really locked in place.

Make sure when your seating the core that you place them in a clean container before pointing. CLEANLINESS is the watchword. Anything getting on the jackets after lubing will end up inside the pointing die and abrasives cut better with lube.

Steve

Steve,

Have you actually had cores fall out after you have seated them in jackets?
The reason I ask is, I yet have to experience that although I haven't been making bullets that long and I make 118gr 30 cal bullets. I do lube them in a tumbler before pointing up, that being said a couple of my friends that make competition 6mm bullets don't lube before pointing up but, they are using carbide dies as well. One of them is making about 14,000/wk and the other about 3,000/wk. I could see if the bullets were put into a tumbler that had paddles in it were the bullets would be falling when reaching a certain arch in the process. I put my bullets into a jacket pail that I fit into the tumbler drum, they are just slidding around, not falling.

Dan

[Steve in Wa]

Dan,

I have. I was making some .308 138's on 1.08" jackets and decided there wasn't enough lube on them so I dumped 1000 into the tumbler with more lube. 15 minutes later, I opened the drum and found 10 - 20 cores had came out. So before pointing I had to look inside to make sure they had a core while I pointed up. I also found out that it is possible to point up an empty jacket.

I think it would depend on the size of the tumbler, how full it was, the weight of the cores, and the length of time they were tumbled would factor into that equation. Since I would rather play it safe, I lube the jackets before seating the core, then point up.

Steve

PS: Both of my tumblers have flat sides inside and they get a lot of action inside.

[JDNC]

Is there a preference in lube types due the die being carbide or steel? I know that carbide needs less lube than steel, but should I use a different lube for steel than I would for carbide?

JD

[Al Nyhus]

I tumble all my core seated jackets before pointing up. If cores are loosening up during this step, the core seating pressure is suspect.

Good shootin'. :) -Al

[Stephen Perry]

My jacket lube is a 3:1 mixture of anhydrous lanolin and vaseline. Heat both up and blend together. I store the lube in film containers.

I usually lube 600 seated core jackets at a time. I use a gallon square jar and shake and roll them for 15 minutes. I do 600 because that fills 3 bullet boards.

Lanoline and castor bean oil would work fine also.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR

[JDNC]

I tried 3:1 lanolin and neetsfoot oil just recently on some 1" j4's and I really think they pointed-up easier than the castor oil mixture. I'll give your vasoline mixture a try.

I was swaging some 162gr LT's as I don't have external punches small enough for any lighter weight bullets for this jacket yet. I originally purchased 8S dies with punches for heavier wt bullets using longer J4 and Sierra jackets but now would like to try some in the 116-125 range. I'm also looking for a used 30BR but haven't found one yet. Could you (or anyone for that matter) advise what dia external punch your using for core seating using the 1" J4? I know the ID of the die plays into this also, but just wanted to know in the ballpark.

[reed1911]

Well if you core seat with a core smaller than the length of the jacket, it should never be able to fall out since the portion with the core in it will be slightly bigger than the entry of the jacket, unless your seating stem is the same OD as the jacket ID. In making .14-.20 cal bullets all my dies from Corbin cause this effect. I can see if you are making SP bullets with a long SP that extends out of the jacket, but otherwise I too suspect your seating pressure is just a little too light.