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Stephen Perry
03-13-2011, 03:03 PM
Tried to finish Day 4 last night but could not enter Day 1,2,3,4 in the original 'ole bullet making thread' because the Thread exceeded the word limit. So I seperated Day 4 from the other days and am including it in a seperate Thread. If any of the managers of the Small Caliber Forum can cut and paste it would be beneficial to new bullet makers following the bullet making Thread to see everything together. So here it goes finishing up the little pieces of gold you guys call bullets custom made for your prized rifle.

Day 4
Day 4 is usually a bullet Christmas present for most bullet makers. The commercial bullet makers can now make some money on their investment of time and equipment. When my lot of bullets is completed the small bullet makers like myself gets to clean guns or get aquanted with their family again. During bullet making time I take no phone calls and don't deal with my family. Bullet making is a personal exercise and relatively simple if you follow each step.

I like all the steps in bullet making but Day 4 point-up day for me gives me a good feeling in my bullet making soul. I don't make bullets for profit I don't sell any. I like to make bullets because I wanted to do something in the shooting sport that I had control over. Being a Shoot Director at San Gabriel Valley Benchrest for 13 years was fine but the program had control of me the whole time. Bullet making is more a personal thing that one can do on their own schedule. One thing though finish what you start in bullet making, you have a sizeable investment in equipment and time invested.

Now that I know I have done all the steps correct in my bullet making and point-up day after point-up day is complete that I will have bullets that give me a chance to compete with my competitor buds. Haven't always felt that way about my bullet making. When I started, I was mostly in the top 5 at my SW Regioin Shoots using Berger, Watson and Gentner bullets - in the day. Galled me shooting bullets I had made and see my once low 2 aggs at 200 go to 3's and 4's but I persisted, I had an investment here. My bullet making Mentor told me his initial bullet making experience was frustrating also. He said that when he started making bullets that he vowed he would never shoot anybody elses bullets again, he has kept that pledge. Sure he struggled in his shooting while he was refining his bullet making technique but not for long. My bullet making Mentor is a 20+ point HoF member and still going strong.

Getting back to Day 4. Several things need to be done before the final pointing-up of bullets and packaging. During Day 3 we established measurements on the seated bullet core below the lead line but not at the pressure ring. Now is where your bulletmaking pays off. If you followed all the bulllet making steps and adjusted your point-up die your ready to start the finishing something worthwhile, your bullets. At $250 per thousand for benchrest bullets and more money for some commercial bullets your savings in making your own bullets should in 4-5 years of bullet making should pay for your bullet making investment.

My first bit of bullet making knowledge came after talking with my 1977 benchrest bullet maker. Tom Metzger shared with me that he burned 75 bullets each time before his benchrest bullet point-up session began, layed these aside calling them Varmint bullets. His reasoning was that it takes use to warm up the die before he started pointing up benchrest bullets, his bullets were always in demand.

Before I get ahead of myself let me talk about bullet lube. Many opinions here most good. What is important here is using a lube that will spread evenly when rolled/tumbled/shaken or whatever way applied. The lube is the medium between the die and the cored jacket so that during the hydraulic action of turning a cylinder/jacket into a guided missle/bullet that now has an ogive, measured shaft, and a pressure ring that seals the bullet in the case neck with the appropriate neck tension. You as the bullet maker have control over all these parameters when you make your own bullets. My lube, also from another bullet Mentor is a mix: 3 parts anhydrous lanolin 1 part vaseline. Heat the mix and store for later use. I store my lube in film containers. Lube goes a long way, 10-12 oz of lube generally lasts me 10 years. Applying lube to jackets has several ways that get the job done. Some use a tumbler with a measured amount of lube, some use a t-shirt and lube to roll the jackets until they get tired. I use a one gallon mason jar, measure my lube and rub lube on all 4 sides inside the jar and inside the lid. Then I go to my kid and let her shake the jar until she gets tired, 8-10 minutes. Lastly, I roll the jackets still inside the jar trying to evenly spread the lube around for each jacket. Lube and it's application is what determines the final dimensions on your bullets. Remember lube/hydraulic pressure and heat are the mediums that move the jacket metal to take the shape of the inside of the die thus the shank measurement and the ogive. The pressure ring is not formed inside the die but forces inside the die when released from the die form the .0003-.0004 difference in measurment at the base of the bullet, boat-tail bullets don't have a pressure ring as the action of forming the boat-tail takes the pressure ring in a seperate attachment.

Before the point-up session begins clean up again, organize your stuff put things away, clear your area. I don't want anything slowing down my point-up operation. I take no phone calls, lock my garage door, keep my family away. Pointing-up bullets will make or break all your good work so far. Take bullet making serious. I point-up as fast as I can go without losing control. Want to keep that die warm as I go. Want my pressure rings to measure the same all the way through. Like to see my 6 bullets measure .2430 on the shank and .2434 on the pressure ring. My 22 bullets go .2240 on the shank and .2243 on the pressure ring. Take a short break when fatigue starts to set in. Use this time to measure some bullets. Weighing of bullets comes last. Finish off your lot of bullets, personal preference I leave the lube on the bullets after the point-up.

Storing bullets for later use. I use either old 100 pk bullet boxes but mostly the boxes I buy come from the 99 cent store. I use 200, 300, and bulk boxes. Going to a weekend shoot I take two 300 pks this allows me to give away a few bullets to new shooters who want to compare custom bullets to the Sierra, Speer, Nosler or what they inherited. I don't sell bullets so if they ask me I will send them to whoever has some benchrest bullets for sale.

Addendum

I recently bought a big box of TSP, for the boil, at Loh's. Now I have the cleaning agent I was looking for to go along with my Vinegar wash. Be willing to try good suggestions about bullet making from others like I do from Gary Ocock and Stu Harvey when I shoot with them.

That's about it. Lots more to discuss, got nothing but time here to share. General problems that occur during bullet making can be dealt with when they come up. Let some of the other fine bullet makers on Small Caliber share also. Done.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR

Kiwishooter
03-13-2011, 06:19 PM
Steohen I have cut and pasted it to the other thread.........Kiwi

Stephen Perry
03-22-2011, 11:20 AM
Thanks. Now if we can get Admin to combine the two bullet making Threads in order we will have a good platform of learning for newer bullet makers.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR

Stephen Perry
04-08-2011, 12:41 PM
You mentioned warming your point-up die before starting your point-up operation. Do you warm up your core making die and your core seating die also. And if so how warm? What do gain by starting with warm dies? More consistent measuremants? And what calipers and mic do you use to measure jackets, core seated jackets, and finished bullets? Do you have a set of Standards to check your mic with?

These are all typical questions a newer bullet maker might ask his Mentor. Nothing negative here, informational only for newer bullet makers and those wanting to share ideas on bullet making.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR

Stephen Perry
06-04-2011, 12:49 PM
Welcome Caroby. There are 2 parts to 'the ole bullet making thread'. The first 3 days Thread exceeded the text limit so I wrote day 4 as a seperate Thread. Nice to see Gerry M and George Ulrich come over and join us on Small Caliber, Al Nyhus is already here. On Small Caliber the bullet making Thread is branching out to include the making of Varmint bullets which that's where most of us started shooting and loading for anyway.

Thanks again Caroby for coming on Small Caliber there is aalot of stuff here you might not find on another Forum.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR

Stephen Perry
01-29-2012, 02:58 PM
Since I wrote my 4 day bullet making operation Al Nyhus has come on to share his .30 cal swaging using his Blackmon dies. Good job Al. Like to see a .17/.20 bullet making operation from some of the fine Small Caliber shooters.

One thing to remember my Day 4 of pointing up bullets goes with the 'ole bullet making thread' I wrote.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR

stephen perry 1
11-30-2012, 03:49 PM
Day 4 bullet making was written as a seperate Thread to abide with saubier.com limit on Post word limits. Those wanting a complete 4 day begining to end method to suppliment what they already use will have to do some cut and paste. The archives here on Small Caliber have some good discussion on bullet making topics, worth exploring.

Like to hear from those that make 17 and 30 cal bullets.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR

stephen perry 1
01-17-2013, 12:46 PM
Want to hear from the other guys.

BadgerBob
01-21-2013, 01:36 AM
I'm building 17 bullets but I'm about as green at it as one can be. The lack of jackets has forced me to look at other ways to get jackets. So I built a set of draw down dies and started making jackets out of 22 LR cases. I make to different sizes, .540 and .640 length. I also have some J4 jackets .500 length. With all that being said, I have noticed a few things, the biggest difficulty is that for some reason the J4 jackets stick to the core seater punch and the LR jackets don't. I have two different sizes of core seating punch and have tried both, they both stick with the J4's. Is there any way around this problem, and is there an easy way to get them off with out damaging them once they do get stuck?

Thanks
Bob

MIBULLETS
01-21-2013, 02:38 AM
In my experience, the main reason for the seated core sticking to the punch is the punch size. Too big, the punch can dig into the jacket and stick. Too small and the lead can bleed by and hold onto the punch. I would try to determine if one of these two are happening first. Putting a small amount of lube on the punch before seating the core can help, but the right sized punch is the best.

The J4 jackets are tapered so you can play around with final weight to possibly help get the right fit at a different depth in the jacket if you don't mind making a bullet slightly lighter or heavier than your original target weight.

george ulrich
01-21-2013, 04:11 PM
In my experience, the main reason for the seated core sticking to the punch is the punch size. Too big, the punch can dig into the jacket and stick. Too small and the lead can bleed by and hold onto the punch. I would try to determine if one of these two are happening first. Putting a small amount of lube on the punch before seating the core can help, but the right sized punch is the best.

The J4 jackets are tapered so you can play around with final weight to possibly help get the right fit at a different depth in the jacket if you don't mind making a bullet slightly lighter or heavier than your original target weight.

great advice normally the calls I get for bullets sticking on punch is one of three things,to large of a punch,to much lube,to much pressure core seating with the correct size punch. george

Randy Robinett
01-25-2013, 01:09 PM
great advice normally the calls I get for bullets sticking on punch is one of three things,to large of a punch,to much lube,to much pressure core seating with the correct size punch. george

If you have only a small punch selection, simply make the core volume match your jacket LOT and punch size(es) - there is nothing magical in a specific weight.
Think VOLUME, not weight. RG

P.S. Consider lube a necessary evil: use it sparingly - especially if using carbide dies.

stephen perry 1
04-04-2013, 01:49 AM
If you had a small selection of punches all a tad on the small size would you increase core volume until you get a minute ring of lead of after you seat the core in the jacket.

Stephen Perry

Randy Robinett
04-04-2013, 02:21 AM
If you had a small selection of punches all a tad on the small size would you increase core volume until you get a minute ring of lead of after you seat the core in the jacket.

Stephen Perry

Stephen, that would depend: if, when inserted into a raw jacket, of the Lot in question, the punch diameters were all too small to contact the jacket walls, one would either need some larger punches, or, have to live with the "excessive" bleed-by . . . which, especially if uniform, may not prove a bad as most would believe. :eek:

However, assuming that by small, you mean smaller than you'd like for your chosen weight, but which did, when inserted into the cup, contact the walls at a point above the projected tangent point of the shank/nose, then no. Just the opposite: one would reduce the core length/volume to match the punch diameter, expanded-up core, & jacket-wall thickness, to a degree which would afford the preferred small bleed-by . . . more volume would move the top of the core to a LARGER position (internal diameter) along the taper (I'm assuming a tapered jacket wall, a la J4), necessitating a LARGER punch diameter.

I believe, that a LIGHTER bullet would be the order of the day - I think.:D RG

stephen perry 1
04-04-2013, 02:40 AM
This is good stuff/info. Thanks Randy.

Stephen Perry

stephen perry 1
05-04-2013, 01:08 AM
Some as we saw earlier want to cast cores out of surplus lead. Fine says I if you have a journeyman bullet making die set for making varmint and plinking bullets. I would suggest a small punch set all undersized. Cast cores might be harder than the 1/2 % lead wire I use but do-able.

Those that try comeback on us I want te hear.

Stephen Perry

stephen perry 1
06-06-2013, 11:51 AM
Day 4 should always follow Day 1,2,3.

stephen perry 1
06-07-2013, 03:11 AM
Randy I have a Ruger 77 V in .308. What bullet weight would you recommend for shooting out to 600 yd.

Stephen Perry

amos
06-08-2013, 12:15 PM
Randy I have a Ruger 77 V in .308. What bullet weight would you recommend for shooting out to 600 yd.

Stephen Perry

Stephen, I shoot mid range 600 yd. I am thinking this it what you were asking. In my 308, I use 155 Sierra's or 175 Sierra's or Berger 155's or the 185's. Depending on twist.

Hunting I use Sierra's or Hornady's sst's in the 150 to 165 range. Not that there are not other brands of bullets that will do just fine. It's just I have tried some of the others and the ones I mentioned gave better accuracy in my rifle.

amos

stephen perry 1
06-08-2013, 01:08 PM
amos
I only make 22 & 6 bullets so I have to listen to what others make or recommend in other calibers, might have some of the bullets you shoot.

Stephen Perry