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Tedward
10-07-2006, 04:44 PM
Hi all,
Advice needed on best round for foxes, based on a Hornet case.
Is there much to choose between .17, .19, .20, and .22K
from the foxes point of view? Not worried about pelt damage, but dont want crawl offs.
What would be your minimum bullet weight recommended for a chest shot and at what range?
Any opinions please?
Ted.

montdoug
10-07-2006, 05:53 PM
If I were hunting specifically foxes and didn't care about fur I just wanted dead foxs I'd leave it alone or K it and shoot a 40 grain V-Max. My Hornet clocks 3,000ish fps with a 40V-Max and I'd feal real good about killing foxes efficiently to 200 or maybe 250ish yards with it.
Before my K got turned into a .20 Killer Bee it shot the same bullet at 3,250ish and with it at that velocity with decent conditions I'd be comfortable stretching that to 250 or 300. That bullet should still have the energy and accuracy to be quite effective on foxes at that distance.
If fur mattered I'd turn it to a .17 or .20 Ackley Improved. A bit more condition and shot placement sensitive but not much and sure a lot of fun. Especially with the .17 I'd shorten the distances maybe 50 or 75 yards for a humane kill.
Just my opinion.

fotohunt
10-07-2006, 11:06 PM
If it were me, and I was only hunting foxes, I'd get a 17 ackley hornet and load it with 20 gr berger match bullets with 11.5 of viht N-120 at around 3600 ft/sec. Then, if you really really want something cool, get with foxhunter and get the specs for a 17x 28mm shooting the 17 gr speer tnt HP's. That will be far better.
Just my $.02,

Darrell

Tedward
10-08-2006, 02:06 PM
Thanks Mounydoug/Fotohunt,
Good to hear from someone with an informed opinion, ie. having personal experience of compared rounds and not just promoting their pet load. I think here in UK people tend to stick with what they've got.
Keep it coming, all advice appreciated.
Cheers, Ted.

Alex
10-08-2006, 03:16 PM
... 17AH. My normal animal target is the groundhog. Using either 20 gr. Berger MEF's, Starke's or VMaxes, the 17AH is deadly out to 150 yards (my max distance kill with the 17AH), and should be good beyond that. 'Hogs are tough, and sometimes get away even when hit with a 22-250. I've lost very few when I was shooting my little 17AH's. I have even shot a deer with it, out one summer in a bean field where we had a "kill permit" due to the crop damage. Placement was everything, with the deer simply folding up and dropping like a stone.

As for loads, mine max out with 12.6 gr. AA1680 or 12.1 gr N-133 with the 20 gr pills. H-4227 is said to be good, too, but I've never tried it.

I had a Browning Micro Medallion in 22 Hornet for a while. It was really sweet, 5 shot groups in about a half moa were attainable fairly easily, and I really liked it. However, once I got a 17AH, I never fired it again. Good friend owns it now.

My thought is that the 17AH outperforms it's parent, and is the optimum round based on the Hornet case.

In comparison, I think the 20 VT is the best of the 221FB family, out performing the 17M4 and the parent 221FB. I'm partial to the 223 and 223AI on the 223 case, but at this point we're pretty far afield from your question, the 223 being too much gun for fur friendly fox hunting. I do shoot a few foxes every year, but not pelt hunting or even specifically hunting fox.

Alex

rpbill56
10-08-2006, 03:19 PM
I have a 19 Calhoon and I love it. However if I were going to do it over. I'd get a .20 Hornet. Mostly because there are more bullet choices. I think there is a world of difference between a 22 Hornet and a 19 Calhoon.
Bill

Daryl
10-08-2006, 04:22 PM
Hi all,
Advice needed on best round for foxes, based on a Hornet case.
Is there much to choose between .17, .19, .20, and .22K
from the foxes point of view? Not worried about pelt damage, but dont want crawl offs.
What would be your minimum bullet weight recommended for a chest shot and at what range?
Any opinions please?
Ted.

: My opinions are based on the CZ Hornet that I had and loved. In that rifle, I used Lil'Gun, 40gr. Barnes HP Varminatiors, 40gr. Vmax and 40gr. Nosler BT's. My loads, quite safe in that rifle, gave over 3,300fps, with amazing accuracy and brass longevity. My brass went over 13 loads per case, then was converted to .17Ah without annealing and without any case loss.
: I would leave it as a Hornet, or go with the .17 on the case improved, the .17AH. In .17 cal., a 9" twist will guarantee accuracy with 25gr. Vmax bullets and all hits will be visible in the scope. In the Hornet chambing with 40gr. bulelts, there is enough vibration/recol, if you will, to prevent most hits being visible unless low powered scopes in the 12X range are used. At 20X, hits weren't always visible with the Hornet.
: In rifles that won't take the heavy Lil'Gun loads, the "K" version might be best, generally giving the same or slightly less veloctiy than the CZ gives with the standard case.
: Either the .22 Hornet or the .17 Hornet or any other calibre on the same case will answer to the job you have in mind. At one time, I considered the .25 Hornet, a straight case design perfect for cast bullet shooting. How that one would anchor the foxes with perifery hits, I don't know, but suspect it'd be just fine, with 60gr. or 80gr. cast bullets at 2,000fps.
Daryl

foxhunter
10-08-2006, 04:38 PM
i don't know much about shooting fox but i do know it don't matter whay you shoot if you aren't putting up fur.

this is kind of bloody, fox head shotwith a 17 ackley hornet.
[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v396/bobd/gun%20things/foxheadshot.jpg[img]

three fox shot with a 17 ah in the chest, looks like natural cause to mehttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v396/bobd/gun%20things/foxshot.jpg

fox and a bobcat shot with 17 ackley and 17 HMR, hummer is a lil light for fox unless it is under ideal conditions.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v396/bobd/gun%20things/fox1.jpg

two fox shot with 22 hornet, 40 gr vmax at 3365 fps, excessive damage for most fur guys.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v396/bobd/gun%20things/fox2.jpg

havn't shot any fox with the 17 velociraptor yet but if a ground hog is any indication, simular body weight. it will be a good one. 25 gr vmax at 3100-3200 fps.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v396/bobd/gun%20things/ag31_002-1.jpg

for gathering fur any 17 caliber chambering will do as long as the muzzle velocity is in the 3000-3100 fps range, slightly higher with increased distance. the 22 centerfires work well if the bullet velocity is around 2600-2800 fps, out to 100-150 yards

i don't shoot fox with the 20 calibers i own, they are to distructive. if i had a 19 calhoon or 20 vattag i would load them down for fur and up for fun.

hope this helps

Dan C
10-08-2006, 07:35 PM
How did this end up being a sticky??

montdoug
10-08-2006, 07:56 PM
I'll bite, what's a sticky?:confused:

Dan C
10-08-2006, 08:04 PM
I'll bite, what's a sticky?:confused:

Notice it's 'pinned' to the top. These are usually done by moderators or administrator to keep a particularly informative or important post at the top.

montdoug
10-08-2006, 10:40 PM
Oh. Thanks for the info.
This time the info didn't even make me want to buy something.;)

Tedward
10-09-2006, 04:22 PM
Thanks again for your opinions, I'll probably follow Mountdoug's advice initially and then look at a .20AH.if I feel the need.
Anybody know why Pacnor don't produce barrels in this cal.?
Ted.

Daryl
10-09-2006, 04:43 PM
Thanks again for your opinions, I'll probably follow Mountdoug's advice initially and then look at a .20AH.if I feel the need.
Anybody know why Pacnor don't produce barrels in this cal.?
Ted.

PacNor makes wonderful barrels in .20 cal.
Daryl

montdoug
10-10-2006, 03:55 AM
I have three of em Daryl and if I needed another .20 barrel that's what I'd buy due to my prior success with em. "3 groove Super Match stainless", love em! Probably others just as good but why mess with success.

Tedward
10-10-2006, 04:23 PM
Sorry, obviously Pac-nor produce .20 barrels. I meant pre-chambered for .20AH, and ideally threaded as a pre-fit.
Anybody else producing similar quality/price item?
Cheers, Ted.

montdoug
10-10-2006, 06:10 PM
Not in that round. Pac-Nor might do a .17 Ackley Hornet pre-fit? but not .20 Hornet.

Daryl
10-11-2006, 02:02 AM
My friend's PacNor .17, smae 3 groove Super Match now in .17AB, shot a 5 shot group for me with 4 in less than 2/10's inch. The 5th opened the group to 1/4". We were fireforming only.