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P1ZombieKiller
10-12-2014, 02:25 PM
My glass tumbling jar had a little accident. I need to find a new one.

Since I am going to have to replace it, I have a few questions that would have never come up otherwise.

Is glass a better than any other material?
I am not asure what you call the "glued in wooden lip" in the glass jar that causes the jackets to roll over, but is wood the best material for that? Wouldn't wood absorb the lube?
Should there be 2 of those, or is just 1 better?

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/1975207_872419809459652_2008380646097459165_n.jpg? oh=5c8ec826d24c6ef960a0dce451ad59f4&oe=54A9FAAB&__gda__=1422085077_1cfac02d3beb733b0f98c696b47e308 6

george ulrich
10-12-2014, 03:03 PM
hope you have a friend in food industry one gallon pickle jars, wrap with duck tape. as for flipping jackets lowes has clear plastic edge guards 3/4" angle squirt r.t.v. and place inside let dry. I prefer two..p.s glass is better than plastic as plastic seems to hold dirt, but they will work if you can't find glass...

P1ZombieKiller
10-12-2014, 03:43 PM
hope you have a friend in food industry one gallon pickle jars, wrap with duck tape. as for flipping jackets lowes has clear plastic edge guards 3/4" angle squirt r.t.v. and place inside let dry. I prefer two..p.s glass is better than plastic as plastic seems to hold dirt, but they will work if you can't find glass...

Are you saying just to wrap this ne in duct tape? Or get a new one, and wrap that one in duct tape? I am too scared to keep this one. The thought of glass breaking and ruining a whole bucket of jackets seems very likely.
Can you define r.t.v.?

george ulrich
10-12-2014, 05:04 PM
No that one needs replaced then wrap, r.t.v. = silicone glue from auto parts store

Larry in VA
10-12-2014, 07:37 PM
http://www.autozone.com/autozone/accessories/Fluids-and-Chemicals/RTV-Adhesive/_/N-25a0

and info from Sikki Wiki

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RTV_silicone

P1ZombieKiller
10-16-2014, 06:07 PM
And it was much cheaper than I thought. So guess what the soccer team will have for snacks after the game this weekend?

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10354667_874841415884158_4919503899215724458_n.jpg ?oh=897c2c723e575228de657ebbc258dff8&oe=54B0900D&__gda__=1421536437_2e37da000d51b0015a7145417dfe546 d

george ulrich
10-16-2014, 06:18 PM
there you go I ate pickles for a month:D

Randy Robinett
10-17-2014, 02:07 AM
there you go I ate pickles for a month:D

Yeah - and yaz don't need the ""bumps" at all - just get the jar 3/4Ths full of jackets. :p
George, those new .224s are, "tearin' it up" , at 500 Yd., out of a new Hawk Hill barrel (7.5" twist) chambered for an 'altered' .22 BR case! :D
Countin' the days for those 7s - those jackets are talkin' to me!:eek:
Thank you for sharing the jacket info, AND, the GREAT dies! RG

george ulrich
10-17-2014, 12:27 PM
Randy, I tried no flipping they just sit there and spinning.. good to here all worked which ones did you test the standard way or the other ?

Randy Robinett
10-17-2014, 02:54 PM
Randy, I tried no flipping they just sit there and spinning.. good to here all worked which ones did you test the standard way or the other ?

Tested both out of bucket and drawn back, per your advice regarding temp and time- the softer version are terrific - ZERO bullet failures, and the first three 5-shot groups, at 500 Yd., all went under 1.5" - the two three-shot groups at 200 Yd. were a .23xx & a .28xx! And all three had four shots @ 1.0" or less, with three of the four 'touching' - I'd label the "fliers" as missed condition! :)

Have yet to make the "third" version per your advice. The out-of-bucket bullets were somewhat prone to failure - about 8% - but, those that, "made it to the target", shot well. That was a REAL eye-opener! :eek:

Still a LOT of testing to complete - the BC (based upon measured drop from 200 to 500 Yd.) seems 'too good to be true' - got me scratching my head; we'll get that figured out, and then some! Tim was launching them (72 Gr.) at 3550 FPS via a Hawk Hill 7.5" twist barrel . . . with his case capacity, this is case-wrecker pressure - he's a velocity freak.:D

Again, Thank You for the GREAT dies and USEFUL advice! RG

Randy Robinett
10-17-2014, 02:57 PM
Randy, I tried no flipping they just sit there and spinning.. good to here all worked which ones did you test the standard way or the other ?

Forgot - that's what I get/got when the jars have too much empty space. Been doin' it w/o flippers for a LONG time! :D RG

P1ZombieKiller
10-17-2014, 03:05 PM
Tested both out of bucket and drawn back, per your advice regarding temp and time- the softer version are terrific - ZERO bullet failures,

Randy,

For us newer bullet makers, can you explain this? Or is this some super secret project you are working on?

More specifically what I am asking is, are there other ways for me to make bullets other than the "VERY SPECIFIC" steps I have been told to follow?

Randy Robinett
10-17-2014, 09:34 PM
Randy,

For us newer bullet makers, can you explain this? Or is this some super secret project you are working on?

More specifically what I am asking is, are there other ways for me to make bullets other than the "VERY SPECIFIC" steps I have been told to follow?

George was kind enough to share his knowledge regarding the proper temperature range and hold time needed to draw jackets to a more desirable granular structure, which "softens" the jackets, making both core seating and pointing more uniform - this was some J4 .224 jackets about 15+ years old. Some might call it annealing, but I believe that is not the correct terminology for what's taking place - perhaps George will advise. With a little experimenting, George's info proved, "spot on". RG

george ulrich
10-17-2014, 10:10 PM
Randy,

For us newer bullet makers, can you explain this? Or is this some super secret project you are working on?

More specifically what I am asking is, are there other ways for me to make bullets other than the "VERY SPECIFIC" steps I have been told to follow?

Best advice is to follow steps that get the best results, if when you encounter problems we'll be here to help. Randy tested bullet blow up which has haunted one of the jacket mfg's, and I did not agree with there fix or answer to the problem..

Kiwishooter
10-19-2014, 05:45 AM
George was kind enough to share his knowledge regarding the proper temperature range and hold time needed to draw jackets to a more desirable granular structure, which "softens" the jackets, making both core seating and pointing more uniform - this was some J4 .224 jackets about 15+ years old. Some might call it annealing, but I believe that is not the correct terminology for what's taking place - perhaps George will advise. With a little experimenting, George's info proved, "spot on". RG

So what is the temp and hold time......I have quite a few J4's that are quite old that I stopped using, perhaps they would benefit from this treatment.................Kiwi

george ulrich
10-19-2014, 02:34 PM
Not an exact temp. to use due to varying hardness from lot to lot of jackets. Method I came up with is in oven with argon or nitrogen pressure system to remove oxygen. Take 5-10 jackets start at 440* fahr. one hr. remove and allow to cool. core seat and point up if bullet length grows more than .008 from original length as a fb they are still to hard. repeat at 450 * when jackets grow to correct length run them. if bullets loose length they are to soft and will not work..

Kiwishooter
10-20-2014, 09:50 AM
Not an exact temp. to use due to varying hardness from lot to lot of jackets. Method I came up with is in oven with argon or nitrogen pressure system to remove oxygen. Take 5-10 jackets start at 440* fahr. one hr. remove and allow to cool. core seat and point up if bullet length grows more than .008 from original length as a fb they are still to hard. repeat at 450 * when jackets grow to correct length run them. if bullets loose length they are to soft and will not work..


Thanks George but since I'm still trying to teach myself all the finer points about bullet making what is the "correct" length they should grow to as a fb??

george ulrich
10-20-2014, 11:00 AM
if drawn back + .008 over original length if not drawn back they will grow around + .020 over original length...;)

Kiwishooter
10-21-2014, 07:49 AM
Thanks George lesson are very much appreciated.......Kiwi