17 Predator picture.

[Dan C]

I've gotten a few inquiries about the 17 Predator lately, what is it, how 'improved' is it, etc.. Probably due to DAA's excellent video clips he posted a few day ago on GGVG.

Since I'm about ready to go fireform some more brass, I snapped a picture. On the left is a loaded, unfired 17 Predator, and on the right is a fireformed one. Made from IMI 223 brass.....
http://highxj.home.bresnan.net/17p2.jpg

[foxhunter]

from the standard 17-223? i had one for several years back in the early 80's and it looked just like the predator.

bob

[Dan C]

from the standard 17-223? i had one for several years back in the early 80's and it looked just like the predator.

bob

Well, you can see the shoulder is moved forward somewhat, and it has a 30 degree shoulder. Some of the taper is removed also, you can see that pretty clearly in the pic. The 'regular' 17-223 is just a 223 necked down with no other changes to the body. The H&R offering was like that.

[catskin]

I built one to your specks a few years ago after your posts on CG's. It's on a M Seven action, Lilja barrel etc. I've been having pretty good luck with it, although, I have yet to shoot a coyote out past about 250 yards...yet.

Thanks for thinkin it up. Those stright side walls were a bit of a bitch though getting a smooth feed.

http://tumalo.org/catskin/223-17predbeforeFF-17predafterFF-17rem.jpg

[Troy G]

Dan, or anyone else, would you mind measuring the neck length of your fireformed .17 Predator for me and posting the results?

Troy

[foxhunter]

and typing by memory, if i get back far enough to see the picture is to small to tell, it's hell getting old. i'll look when i find the glasses again.
thanks dan

bob

[Dan C]

I built one to your specks a few years ago after your posts on CG's. It's on a M Seven action, Lilja barrel etc. I've been having pretty good luck with it, although, I have yet to shoot a coyote out past about 250 yards...yet.

Thanks for thinkin it up. Those stright side walls were a bit of a bitch though getting a smooth feed.



Trouble feeding eh? Hmm, that's why I left in .010" body taper. My 700 feeds like a pirahna. Didn't yours have a short tube? I'd be interested in what kind of performance you're getting with it...

[catskin]

No it’s a 26”. #2 1/9 SS. I ended up having to pull the barrel and put a bit more rounding on the face of the chamber than I normally would, that made it feed. I’d give you the crono data if I had it but I haven’t bothered to check yet! I finished it just at the start of coyote season, cranked out the brass, saw less than ¾” on paper with my first full loads, and started hunting with it. I have yet to go back and really play around with it. With that light taper, it is a three shot wonder though – the groups start opening up pretty quick as the barrel heats up fast. I’m using your first published loads, I might be able to go higher as I see no signs of pressure related problems, I just haven’t seen the need.

I did learn to turn necks on the lathe! That was a one thing I hadn’t tried before but I was in a rush and found Bryant’s ( http://www.bryantcustom.com/articles/neckturn.htm) instructions. What a blessing that was let me tell you.

Kinda hard to measure the neck length but call it about 0.135".

[DAA]

My .17P is on a M7 too. Started life as a .223. No modifications to it for feeding at all and it feeds the .17P's pretty good. Not quite what I'd call "slick", but as good as most factory 700's.

Dan, if I don't mess up the link posting, here is another video clip I put together the other day - nine coyotes with the .17P (http://www.rmvh.com/Movies/30GoldCoyotes.wmv). I put it together for Todd to post on his website, since all these coyotes were taken with the 30 Gold. A couple are from last year but the rest are from two days of calling the last couple weeks.

My rifle and "the main thing" from one of it's first days afield last year:

http://photos.imageevent.com/daffleck/coyotes/websize/FX3Yotes.jpg

And if my picture posting works, here's your reamer print with all the good details:

http://photos.imageevent.com/daffleck/misc/websize/predatorprint.jpg

And typical performance on paper (though it sees Damn little of that!), 8 shot group, by the way:

http://photos.imageevent.com/daffleck/misc/websize/17PLapBrassGroup.jpg

LOVE my .17 Predator!

- DAA

[Dan C]

Ah man, that's GREAT stuff Dave! How long before #3 comes out? That will be a must have for me.

[Troy G]

DAA, thanks for posting Dan's reamer print. I have been trying to figure how close my .17 wildcat is to a Predator. My smith ran a .17 tactical reamer in long and I have a .160 neck length.

Nice video, makes me want to get out there and do some calling; our fur up here is not going to be ready for another month at least and no point in cutting into my profit margin. :D

How fur friendly are the Golds at Predator speed? I have been having really good results with the Berger 30gr BT and just got some Golds from a friend to try out.

[dondford]

DAA
That was a nice shot on the running "yote quartering away. What was the range?

Don

[rooster32]

Dan,

I just got my .17pred back from Tannel last week. I formed my brass, but seem to have much more of a false neck then your brass(?) Brass chambers fine with a little effort. First go at fire forming brass, so this is new to me.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v185/rooster32/P1020125.jpg

Rifle is based off Rem 700 with Lilja barrel and "the works" from Greg. Have a 4.5x14 VXIII thats going on top as soon as the brown truck brings my Burris rings.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v185/rooster32/P1020120.jpg

[Dan C]

Rooster, I can see that your shoulder is buckled quite a bit, and the false shoulder does look more exaggerated than mine. That looks like Lapua brass? That stuff, as well as the annealed IMI, is pretty soft in the neck and shoulder area. Unless you take multiple steps to reduce your neck, it will tend to compress the brass axially and buckle the shoulder. Measure the shoulder diameter of a virgin case, then measure one of your formed ones. Do the same with the case length, before and after, and you will see that it has shortened.

What dies are you using to reduce the neck? If you can try to add more steps, the buckling will be reduced or disappear. Maybe try running them into a 223 FL die with the expander removed first, that may help. My first batch of brass was IMI and by using a 17 Mach IV form die, trim die, then FL die, I experienced some mild buckling. Using the same procedure with harder W-W brass eliminated it.

I formed some cases the other day using IMI brass. I used a custom bushing die, and went through FIVE bushings (.244", .232", .215", .202", and .196") before finally running them into a 17 M4 FL die. These are not regular Wilson style bushings, they won't work. A lot of strokes on the handle, but my virgin case length was 1.752", and my formed cases ended up at 1.767" long. Fewer steps results in more axial compression of the brass and shorter cases.

I'm not saying toss your cases, they will be fine. The buckling will form out when fired, but you will still lose some length. This is just info for next time, if it helps.......

Nice rifle, I bet it will be a stunner!

[rooster32]

Dan,

Thanks for the response.

I used RCBS form and trim dies (.221 to .17m4) and then turned the necks. At that point, I annealed the cases. Still need to put them through a S neck die to get the neck sized. I think part of my problem was I did not have the form die go far enough down the case neck. Then when using the trim die, I shoved everything down.

Since the necks are so short on the .17pred, I'll have to see if I can still get the bullet to touch...

Ah...just trying to keep Lapua in business...ordering more brass.

Thanks again!

[DAA]

Dan, look for a new "all coyotes" VS sometime in the spring. We've actually got another one, "all chucks" already completed - just waiting on me to get the final edits and DVD artwork done.

Troy, I've found the 30 Gold's to be "pretty good" as far as fur friendly go. Definitely not quite as good as the old Berger 25 Match at slightly lower velocity though. With the Gold's I almost always get an exit on broadside shots. The exit is usually not bad at all, but sometimes it gets kind of messy. And on some of the more poorly placed hits I've made, I've had some really pretty severe fur damage with them. But, on those hits, I really feel like it was worth the extra damage for the extra anchoring capability. There is no doubt that the big 30's moving that fast give you a lot more room for error that way. My partner really likes to aim for the shoulder, and with the Gold's that's no problem. Usually get a tiny entrance, a broken near side shoulder and no exit. Sometimes it will continue through and give an exit anywhere from quarter to silver dollar size. Compared to a bullet that splashes on the near side shoulder, I'll take the penetration!

Don, that shot was only about 90 yards or so.

- DAA

[Dan C]

Dan,

Since the necks are so short on the .17pred, I'll have to see if I can still get the bullet to touch...

Thanks again!

No problem there, the reamer has no freebore. Typical 25 gr. bullets seat way down to the base of the neck.

[catskin]

I practiced reducing with a pile of 223 range brass and thought I had it down pretty good with a two step process using a .221 with the expander removed then the MIV die. When I got the Lapua brass, and after trashing the first two cases, I sat down and thought about it a bit and made up a three step reducer ala Blaine’s plate. I was lucky I had the right three drill bits (but only the two smaller reamers) between .221 and .17 to do the plate holes leaving a forth step in which I used the MKIV die.

[ohiochuck]

Dan C.
Can you tell me if using VN 540 produced higher velocity over VN 140?
Thanks!
Jim

[Troy G]

For top velocity in the Predator I believe Dan C was using VV-550 and Ramshot Big Game.

[georgeld]

That's about as fine a target and set of loads as I've seen anywhere.

Nice job, go get some more of those gray dogs while the price's are still up enough to make it pay.

[Vartarg]

I'm thinking about ordering a 17 Predator barrel from Match Grade Machine. Are there "standard" chamber dimensions? Is there a specific neck diameter involved? Barrel length? Suggestions and comments welcome. Thanks, George

[Mntngoat]

Trouble feeding eh? Hmm, that's why I left in .010" body taper. My 700 feeds like a pirahna. Didn't yours have a short tube? I'd be interested in what kind of performance you're getting with it...


Feeds fine through my Alpine action ADL as well.

ML

[Tim Anderson]

Great vidio DAA, i like the last two kills the most.
I had my 17 pred built on the Stiller pred action with Lija barrel.
No feeding problems with it so far and i'm still hunting with fireform loads and i just got some N-550 in. So far with the fireform loads its working good on the coyotes, really puts the hurt on them. The coyotes should start pairing up shortly and hopefuly by then i should have some brass ready for some serious wet work... Thanks Dan C. and DAA.. T.A.

[DAA]

Ahhh the memories :D .

Here's an updated version of the video clip (http://www.rmvh.com/Movies/VS4Intro.wmv). This new clip is actually the preview for our newest video, but amost all the coyotes in it were shot with my .17P. More than twenty of them.

Merry Christmas All!

- DAA