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lup
12-12-2007, 12:29 PM
I'm sitting at the work bench the other night making .510 caliber bullets in an RCECO Multiswage Press with Walnut Hill Dies, when a bullet sticks in the point forming die. I work the press back and forth trying to get the bullet to unstick but to no avail.

It appears from the outside that I used an ejection punch that's the wrong length for the bullet jacket and the tip has formed around the eject punch. Now the die has the punch stuck in it. I can move the entire punch and formed bullet up and down in the die using the press but I'm unable to remove the punch or the bullet from the die.

Any thoughts on how to fix this? The jacket material on top has already failed and I can clearly see lead on the top section of the die.

Thanks,

Randy Robinett
12-12-2007, 02:18 PM
I'm sitting at the work bench the other night making .510 caliber bullets in an RCECO Multiswage Press with Walnut Hill Dies, when a bullet sticks in the point forming die. I work the press back and forth trying to get the bullet to unstick but to no avail.

It appears from the outside that I used an ejection punch that's the wrong length for the bullet jacket and the tip has formed around the eject punch. Now the die has the punch stuck in it. I can move the entire punch and formed bullet up and down in the die using the press but I'm unable to remove the punch or the bullet from the die.

Any thoughts on how to fix this? The jacket material on top has already failed and I can clearly see lead on the top section of the die.

Thanks,

You'll probably have to get a pal, who owns a lathe, to chuck-up the die, drill and tap a hole in the bullet base, then install a screw and pull the bullet using the tail-stock - "scary", but it always works! :eek: :D RG

lup
12-12-2007, 06:09 PM
What do you mean pull it out with the tailstock? You mean use the teeth of the bed once I've got the threaded piece in the tailstock attached to the bullet and crank the tailstock away from the die?

That sounds like a lot of stress on the teeth of the lathe feed.

What happens if the external punch is just below the surface of the bullet base? Won't I tear that all up trying to thread/drill through it?

Thanks,

george ulrich
12-12-2007, 09:42 PM
use pliers or vise grips and try to pry ejection pin loose at top if you can get get ejection pin loose take a small piece of lead about 3/16 long goop upwith lube then push in behind bllet this will force point closed and force lube around bullet should eject with out any problems. good luck george p.s. i have have done this many times

Randy Robinett
12-12-2007, 10:12 PM
What do you mean pull it out with the tailstock? You mean use the teeth of the bed once I've got the threaded piece in the tailstock attached to the bullet and crank the tailstock away from the die?

That sounds like a lot of stress on the teeth of the lathe feed.

What happens if the external punch is just below the surface of the bullet base? Won't I tear that all up trying to thread/drill through it?

Thanks,

I don't understand the reference to the lathe feed teeth . . .?? But, yes, use the tail-stock feed to remove the stuck bullet. I am also assuming that this is a single cavity (female) point-up die, along the lines of the original B&A dies their descendants . . .

Usually, the knock-out pin has entered the meplat (mouth of the pointed bullet), but barely (if at all) penetrated the core. Further, the usual circumstance is that the knock-out pin forced its way into a slightly short(er) jacket, thus the meplat was not completely "closed" to the same diameter of previous bullets. If the punch/pin were so long as to enter the die cavity, it is unlikely that you could "close" the press enough to completely point the bullet: this would result in a "sudden" and HARD stop . . . and a very tightly stuck pin; I've undone one of those for a pal, using my "normal" proceedure, as follows:

Chuck the die in a collet; chuck the appropriate drill in the tail-stock chuck, then drill the bullet base, taking care to NOT drill so deep as to contact the jacket along the INSIDE wall of the nose section; then, the drill is replaced by the appropriate tap - again, in the tail-stock chuck - and proceed to "TAP" the bullet [jacket] base and core, feeding the the tap by simply pushing on the loosened tail-stock, while truning the lathe spindle by hand - it's EASY to strip the lead core!:eek:

If I believe that the TAP has a pretty good bite, I then try simply pulling the tail-stock back with one hand, while truning the spindle with the other - this USUALLY works: if not, I unchuck the TAP and replace it with a screw (more STRAIGHT shank, thus better "bite"), turn the tail stock feed toward the spindle a few turns, slide the tail-stock in far enough to "grab" the screw head, lock the tail-stock chuck on the head, LOCK the tail-stock to the ways/bed, then use the tail-stock feed screw to remove the stuck bullet - this has yet to fail. Actually, once you gain the advantage, there seems to be little resistance . . . I always wonder why the bullet was stuck!:eek:

"What happens if the external punch is just below the surface of the bullet base? Won't I tear that all up trying to thread/drill through it?"

Assuming that, by this, you mean the knock-out pin/punch has penetrated the entire length of the bullet and is near to or, exited the bullet base, then, I agree with you - the pin would likely deflect a drill, possibly buggaring the die cavity finish . . . if you've gone this far, my method is useless.:( And you're in pretty deep dooo - you'll need some professional help!

If the knock-out pin is still gripped by the pin shaft, George's sound advice will work. If the pin has come loose from the shaft, you're still in muddy water. RG

george ulrich
12-12-2007, 10:57 PM
if pin has come loose you will be able to move pin holder but bullet will remain in die. and not move when ejection pin holder is moved. if you have doubts about and is possable disassemble die and check if just pin is stuck do not push in die further. randy's way might work i do know some people that have drilled in and pulled loose with a wood screw. just remember don't panic or get in hurry better to think of what you are doing and go slow. george

lup
12-13-2007, 03:19 AM
Thanks for all your great input.

I finally managed to get free of this mess.

It seems that the ejection pin had penetrated most of the bullet and was still stuck along with the pin holder.

I removed the whole mess and tried to wiggle the pin free by twisting. I only succeeded in removing the pin from the holder. I then tried to drive the pin all the way through and I succeeded in getting the pin through the bullet. Then I used George's small core and lube method to ensure the the bullet was lubed inside and out. I took another punch and used that to drive out the remnents of the first punch straight through the bullet and out the other side. I was then able to remove the second punch.

Know my punch was free but the bullet was still in the die.

I went back to basics and tried to form the point again. Now that I had enough lube on the sides, once I formed a sharp point, I was able to drive out the mangled bullet from the die.

From this I learned. Lube Lube Lube. Patience is key to freeing this. Think about what's holding everything in place and try to get it free. Brute force will just break things.

Thank you everyone for your suggestions and help.

georgeld
02-02-2008, 04:29 AM
George:
wouldn't a bit more really fine polishing help cure this from happening again??

Just an idea from reading Pauls posts about sticking things in tools.

ahhh, another George!! hehe

george ulrich
02-05-2008, 10:14 PM
george, yes sometimes finish is an issue more in steel than carbide but could be any number of things if just starting i still believe alittle more lube is better until you get a feel for things. george

Stephen Perry
09-26-2010, 02:16 AM
Stretch your knock out pin spring and silicone spray the ejection pin. What happened to you was the knockout pin dried out and the spring didn't pull the pin out of the hollowpoint fast enough. Happens to all bullet makers, not often though.

George Ulrich's method is the easiest way to remove a stuck bullet, I do the same.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR

J. Valentine
02-28-2012, 07:46 AM
One thing you need to check is the die match difference .
Measure the diameter of the core seated jackets then compare that to the final diameter of a point formed bullet . If the size difference is less than .0005 then that could be adding to hard ejection. Most people blame the point forming die when in most cases it's the core seater that is worn , expanded or badly matched from new . It is worth checking to be sure what is going on. I like .001 to .002 between the core seater and point former with the ones I have made , works fine for me and the match lasts way longer . The manufacturers will disagree I'm sure .