About ready to pull my hair out!!!....

[GreatWaputi]

I picked up a CZ 527 American in .17 MachIV a short while ago and in my search for brass, I ended up with brass from three different sources. I got about 75 rounds with the rifle; purchased another 100 or so; and one kind gentleman on this board actually gave me another lot. The problem I'm having is even after full length resizing, trimming to length, and chamfering, the only brass that'll chamber in the rifle is the stuff that came with it, and I cannot for the life of me figure out what's going on!

I've measured the OAL, the necks, and three places along the case body with a digital caliper, and even though the measurements are the same, it's a no go! The cases I received with the rifle are resized .221 Fireball, as are the cases that were given to me. The others were formed from L.C. .223 brass. I thought maybe they needed to be neck turned, but the neck O.D.'s all measure the same. I could probably force the bolt closed with the reformed .221 Fireball brass, but it ain't happening with the L.C.! I've reloaded for years and anytime I've had problems like this in the past it was due to either length or the shoulder being pushed back, but this has me stumped where everything has been run through a F.L. die and trimmed to exactly the same OAL.

Any suggestions other than to chuck the whole thing into the dumpster and leave the handloading to the professionals?....:eek:

[Rodgervich]

Have you colored a case with Sharpie marker or DyKem then try to chamber it? That should show you real quickly where the case is binding in the chamber.
Take a look at the shoulder/neck junction, sometimes the dies will leave a larger radius than the chamber has and the case will interfere right there even though headspace and diameters measure the same.
If that doesn't show you where the case is bumping then throw it in MY dumpster, I'll even pay the shipping. :)

[GLWenzl]

It almost sounds to me like the chamber might be set up with min head space??? If you did not get the dies and shell holder with the riffle maybe the dies will not push the shoulder back far enough??? Maybe a few thou off the bottom of the die or the top of the SH might help...

Maybe use something to could get some measurements from the shoulder to the rim and compare it to the brass that came with the riffle???

My new but little experience with LC stuff is that the brass is tough! I have been pushing the shoulder back on some making 17-222 brass and although it was factory annealed that stuff is tuff!

I am sure someone her will know I am just taking a wild stab at it...

[GreatWaputi]

The dies (Redding) came with the rifle, but not the shell holder. I've always used RCBS shell holders, but now I'm wondering if maybe different makers shell holders are different thicknesses? Hmm?....

[drewh]

Do you happen to have a sinclair comparator nut? if so you might use one of the larger holes - say 30 caliber to compare one of the cases that does fit to one that doesn't. By using the larger hole you can compare the length at the same place on the shoulder. I hope that make sense, It's my way of comparing lengths at the shoulder.
Drew
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g172/cahussey/misc/shoulder_1_2_1.jpg

[GreatWaputi]

I took Rodgervich's suggestion and colored a couple cases with a black Sharpie and chambered them and there's a ring down about where the belt would be on a magnum case. I think that pretty well tells me the cases aren't going far enough into the sizing die, even though the arm on my press is camming over as the shell holder hits the bottom of the die. I guess I'll have to try a different brand of shell holder to see if I can find a thinner one, or modify the one I have.....

[rayjay]

Is the shell holder touching the bottom of the die when you are actually resizing a case? Due to the 'springing' of the press you may find that there is a considerable gap.

[vmthtr in Green Bay]

I took a dremel to the top of my shell holder. Took a little off at a time until my cases seated with a hint of resistance.

Mike

[foxhunter]

different brand of shell holders are without different heights, sounds like you have gotten excellent advise here. had the same problem with the 17v-r, removed a little from the die bottom and was good to go.
make sure you keep a close eye on overall headspace, use drew's method, you can use just about any thing that has a hole larger then the neck.

here I use a shell holder
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v396/bobd/gun%20things/nv19_005.jpg
a collet from my rcbs bullet puller.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v396/bobd/gun%20things/nv19_002.jpg
and my stony point with a 22 insert
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v396/bobd/gun%20things/nv19_001.jpg
all you are looking for is the difference between a fired case and your reload, i.e headspace. by trimming the die you may allow the die to create excess headspace to resize the case head.

[Al Nyhus]

Keep the brass that fits and toss the rest. Get some new 221 FB brass and go foward. For a few bucks you can buy 100 pcs. of new brass and always know where you're at.

Struggling with junk brass and brass that doesn't fit rates right up there with pushing a rope...lots of work for no progress. ;)

Good shootin'. -Al

[vmthtr in Green Bay]

[QUOTE=GreatWaputi;23940]I picked up a CZ 527 American in .17 MachIV a short while ago and in my search for brass, I ended up with brass from three different sources. I got about 75 rounds with the rifle; purchased another 100 or so; and one kind gentleman on this board actually gave me another lot. The problem I'm having is even after full length resizing, trimming to length, and chamfering, the only brass that'll chamber in the rifle is the stuff that came with it, and I cannot for the life of me figure out what's going on! =QOUTE]

Have you fired any thing yet? The brass that came with the gun may not work either once fired.

Mike

[cooperman223]

Have you tried the candle trick ?.
Lite a candle and hold the case above the flame gently rotate the case to get a good sooty mark over the neck/shoulder area, try to chamber the case untill it starts to get tight, now remove the case and without touching the neck/shoulder and look for where the soot has been scraped off, this will tell you where the tight spot is.
Good luck.

[ray h]

Greatwaputi, since you say your various case dimensions are the same, have you tried slipping the case under the extractor then chambering them. I had a couple extractors that needed polishing that were giving me some problems.

[Old Goat]

Sorry your having trouble with the brass I sold you:(

They obviously fit my Mach IV snuggly as I too had the forming blues getting them to chamber. I did, however and they fit snuggly and worked very well.

Consider this an open offer to buy them back if you're unhappy with them!!
Only right thing to do, besides it'll keep me from having to make some more.. They can be time consuming:rolleyes:

As far as the quality of the LC brass over the 221 fireball. I personally won't get into that on the open forum, but I'll make mine out of anything but Fireball Remington brass.
I have 100 RP 223 cases and 100+ WCC 223 cases reformed to 221 sitting and waiting for a cold day so they can become either Mach IV brass or Vartarg Brass in a duration test hopefully in the works for 08'.
Again, let me know if I need to send you a check!!!!

Later
OG

[GreatWaputi]

I figured out what the problem was, and it had nothing to do with the brass I got from Old Goat. Turns out it was the lube I recently started using. I won't get into all the details as to how I figured it out, but let's just say I'll no longer be using Hornady One Shot! Maybe I got a bad batch, but it doesn't lube worth crap (inside or outside), and I was paying careful attention to make sure I got it in the case mouths. I think what was happening is the shoulder was being pulled forward by the expander ball as the cases were being withdrawn from the FL die. I lubed up some of Old Goat's LC brass with RCBS lube tonight and ran them through the FL die and they now chamber in my rifle fine. I feel like kind of a dumb@$$, but at least I got the problem solved....

[vmthtr in Green Bay]

I use all Redding "S" style dies and wonder what and expander ball is?? (just kidding, I got away from it for just this reason.)

Mike

[rayjay]

I let's just say I'll no longer be using Hornady One Shot! Maybe I got a bad batch,..

I recently have had bad results with One Shot but was thinking maybe it was the cold weather as I spray the cases outside to avoid making a mess in the house or garage. I am now using Imperial sizing wax.

[Tim Anderson]

:) I have used Hornady one-shot case lube since it first came out, i use it to form wildcat brass and for standard cartridges as well and never had a problem with it what so ever..You have to make sure you shake the can for a minute before use other wise good to go..