rcbs vs. hornady???

[callak9]

My two brothers and I are going in on reloading equip. We know we want a progressive press. I found a new rcbs pro 2000 at a shop that has had it for awhile and still has a price from two years ago, 369.00 but then hornady has there press for the same money, any thoughts on which is the better if the two? I am gonna be reloading for my 17 rem but they will be doing alot of pistol reloading? thanks

[TinMan]

I would recommend getting a Dillon 550B. They are by far the preferred progressive press. Lifetime, no BS warranty. I load for 20 different calibers on mine, from 9mm to 45 Colt in handgun, and from 17 Remington to 45-70 and 458WM in rifle. Also load 22 Hornet and 221FB on it. I have the dies set up for 17 Mach IV, but haven't loaded for it yet simply because I had a bunch of loaded rounds to 'empty" first and am working on a restocking project for that rifle.

[fluesheet]

Hmm. The does the 550 give enough fine control over powder charges and bullet seating? Do you use the automatic powder charging station? I wouldn't think a small rifle case like the hornet would survive the mouth belling / powder charging operation.

Sorry Callak for the thread theft...

[GLWenzl]

It seems that the Dillon gets the thumbs up over the Hornady L&L Progressive and most others.. It may well be that much better??? I have no experience with the Dillon…

I will however give you my review of the Hornady.

I got this one mostly because I was mentored into a progressive for case forming and my mentor not only bought one for himself but also found one for me??? (Thanks Rem) Not to be out done by my mentor I jumped in with both feet and it was the best money I have ever spent on reloading equipment. I really had no intentions to quit using my single stage however it gets used very little these days… I use the progressive as a progressive and also sometimes as a single stage…

The Hornady L&L is a well built heavy duty machine that has worked almost flawlessly for me….

1. It works very well for multi steps in case forming, nothing I would want to change about it…
2. It can be switched from almost any cartridges I have (excluding the 17 CCM and 5mm Mag) in less than five minutes and I am back in business reloading. Most of that time is spent on adjusting the powder measure from a short case to a long case if needed….
3. I get very even powder flow with most types of powders (it’s almost scary accurate and there is no powder baffle in it??), the longer stick powder I never ever use in it….
4. No mess from old primers, everything goes right down the poop chute… But if you slip up and spill powder best better have a nice lil paint brush and canned air handy to get rid of the mess or it can end up in the primer feed and mess you up…
5. The only thing I wish was different was that it would hold more than 100 primers which has a danger draw back having so many primers out on the bench at one time. Other than that it has been a real peach.

Not saying I would not be happy or as happy with a Dillon there is just no way of me knowing lacking experience however I am sold on the Hornady and if it was ever lost I would replace it with another just like it…

[TinMan]

More comments on the Dillon. Let me start by saying I have loaded a few thousand Hornet rounds on my 550B. Yes, I do use the powder measures, and its performance is very good, but highly dependent on the specific powder. It comes with both a small and a large charge bar which handles all common pistol and rifle cartridges, from 38SPL or 9mm up to 30-06 or even higher. An X-small and Magnum charge bars are available to extend the range, if needed. If you keep the measure clean and adjusted properly, it will usually feed fine ball powders like W296 or AA1680 in a 0.1gr range (e.g., 2.7 - 2.8gr of W231 in a 38SPL). Short stick powders like IMR4227 or large flakes like Blue Dot are a little worse, usually in a 0.2gr range, or 0.3gr at worst. Large grained stick powders are notorious for poor feeding, so powders like IMR4064 or long IMR4381 are typically in a 0.4 grain range. It is important to adjust the powder die to get a full stroke of the powder measure and have brass that is trimmed to fairly consistent length to get these results. It is also critical to throw at least 5 - 10 rounds at a setting to get the powder flowing under its own means and stabilize fully. Just collect the powder and toss it back in the feeder.

The Dillon activates the powder measure by using the brass to push up and cycle the powder measure. Pistol cartridges use a powder funnel that fits into the case mouth and slightly bells the brass to make bullets seating easy. Rifle cartridges use a powder funnel that fits around the case mouth and does not bell open at all. As above, the important thing is to adjust the powder die to get a full stroke of the powder measure. This is easy to do, and it took longer to type this than it does to adjust it.

Concerning OAL adjustment, it is all in your die set-up, and one reason why I really like the Dillon removable toolhead system. You pretty much set up your dies once and leave them alone. I go one step farther and have made up some custom shims to take the 'play' out of the tenons on the toolhead. Not really necessary, but when I was shooting High Power, I did everything I could to develop the best loads I could. Measuring with a Sinclair'nut' on the ogive, I can keep 223 within 0.002 range for head to ogive length with 69gr SMKs. Actual bullet length varies far more than that. Hope this helps.

[callak9]

As I look more into the dillon it looks as though the 550b is right around the same money as the hornady or rcbs so if it is that much better a reloading machine I guess thats the way to go. It just seems to me that everything else needed for it makes it an expensive press, conversion kits, dies etc. I have hopes of reloading 17 rem, 9mm, 45, 6.8, .223 rem, and 270 on this press so it could get ugly expensive. also as I look at your replies, what am I gonna have to do to reload the 17 rem, a smaller powder charge item for it? I appreciate all the coments on the presses. getting closer to a decision.

[TinMan]

I don't know the specifics of how the RCBS and Hornady progressive presses work mechanically, so I can't make any comment on which might be more expensive to equip for all your needs. Don't you need a caliber specific shellplate for the other presses?

All calibers you mentioned will work quite well with the small and large charge bars supplied with the basic reloader kit - the small bar adjusts from maybe 2gr to around 25gr powder, depending on specific powder characteristics. The large bar will run from around 15 or 20 up to in the 60's somewhere. That will handle anything you listed. (P.S., the 17 Rem and the 223 take about the same powder charges, typically in the mid 20's.) The 17 Rem uses the same shellplate as the 223, but different powder funnnels. It is the case mouth diameter that usually determines what powder funnnel is needed. You can buy the pieces separately, they need not be bought as complete conversion kits. Similarly, the 45ACP and the 270 use the same shellplate but different powder funnels. The 9mm and the 6.8 have their own shellplates and powder funnels - different head size and bullet diameter. For example, the same shellplate can be used for 45ACP, 45 WinMag, 45GAP, 243, 244 Rem, 6BR, 6mm Rem, 308, 7mm-08, 270, 280, 30-06, 35 Whelen, etc. It is convenient to spend the money and set up each caliber you load for on a separate toolhead with its own powder die and powder funnel, so you can just swap out the whole set-up toolhead in the press and move the powder measure between set-up toolheads, but you don't have to do it that way, and you don't have to do it all at once. You can start by taking the set-ups apart and building them up for a different caliber, but you can't change between calibers in 5 minurtes that way. Start simply with 2 or 3 calibers and add more later as you get used to the machine and save up more money to get more parts. The big advantage will be to load the pistols calibers first, since most folks will use more of them than say, the 270. You can use anybody's standard 7/8-14 dies, but the Dillon carbide pistol dies are really great in their press. I have Hornady, RCBS and Redding rifle dies, but only one pistol caliber that is not a Dillon die, and I will not go that way again. Any standard dies you have that you use in a single stage press now will work in the 550B.

[GLWenzl]

Callak9, just curious why the Dillion is the way to go… No offense intended just not clear on it myself, seems they are pretty much equal in many ways from what I am reading here. Tinman has a great descriptive post I really enjoyed reading and I still can not see what the Dillion has on the Hornady yet and am just curios as what that might be? (sorry I am very slow) I guess that I keep hearing Dillon is better but never figured out why. Dillon might have a larger capacity on primers and that would be a big plus because a 100 don’t go far for me…

I have not looked into the Dillon about getting ugly expensive but from the Hornady standpoint there is not much extra you need but the SPs and looking at what you have there probably 4 or 5 SPs. I have a total of 8 with around 200 rapped up in them… Other than for me it was pretty much pop a die box open and load…

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f388/glwenzl/IMG_3223.jpg
17 Squirrel, 17 Rem

There is nothing special about the 17 Rem except that the 17 calibers require smaller diameter drop tube. I load from a 17 Squirrel to a 22-250 and the 7-30 Waters (and pistol rounds, 40 S&W-357 Mag- 44 Mag- 45 LC) using the 17 drop tube with great success but I am using mostly Ramshot powders and others that meter well. (I don’t think I have loaded the larger rounds such as the 270, 30-06 and 7mm STW though. I load 9 different 17 calibers, 3 twenty cals and a slug of 22s on my progressive and can go from one caliber to the next in just 5 minutes or less… Last year I loaded up just over 1000 17 Ahs and a just over 500 17 Squirrels, 200 17 Killer Bees and 300 20 KBs and I believe it was around 400 17-222s before leaving on a PD trip up through Wyoming and Montana.. I did a 1000 17 CCMs too but that was by hand…

[TinMan]

Gary, Your points are well taken and honest. The Dillon has the same 100 primer capacity in the press, but supply the press with 3 primer filler tubes of each size, so you can rapid reload the press in groups of 100.

For me, I guess I like the Dillon for the removable tool heads, but that may be moot since the Lock-n-Load option came out on the Hornady. In the end, it may be a matter of taste or what you are comfortable with. (Dare I say a Ford vs Chevy vs Dodge issue?) I went Dillon originally because a friend had one already and I used it a few times and was familiar with it. This was around 17 years ago. I also use a very old cast iron Herters C press that helps weigh my bench down for a variety of tasks. The choice on the Herter's was very clear - it was given to me, and already had the RCBS shellholder conversion on it. A no-brainer.

[GLWenzl]

Yeah, I sure didn’t want to get into the ford chevy debate deal and since I have mostly Hornady stuff since I was 12 (47 now) I wanted to be opened minded and learn about the Dillon as from the reviews it always gets I believe it to be a good quality press but have never checked it out. I am sure a side by side comparison would show strengths and weaknesses of both presses. Thank you Tim Man for all the previously posted info, it is very informative.

PS we both must have been typing at the same time on the earlier post...

PSS The progressive also work very well for case forming (if you have enough form dies)

[callak9]

thanks alot for the replies. I am not sold on any one press yet. Just reading reviews and such. I have always liked rcbs single stage presses and was hoping to hear aot of good things about the pro 2000 , only because of the good price I found, but definately am not afraid of hornady. Doesnt look to be any real problem areas with any of them. Guess it comes down to what hood emblem I want. So if I understand you right, you dont have to get the conversion kits, it just makes for faster setup? And the hornady has the quick conversion that they call lock and load ? Does the rcbs offer this also? I appreciate all your time guys.

[Gary in Illinois]

I have not posted on this topic because it seems that everyone is sold on the Dillon 550. My only experience with the Dillon is playing with one owned by a friend who is into Cowboy Action Shooting.

I'm sure they work fine but they seem to need a lot of extras to work with a wide variety of cartridges. Those who own them are pleased and that would seem to be a good endorsement.

I bought the RCBS Pro 2000 several years ago and I would make the same choice again. I much prefer the cast iron construction that appears to be sturdier than the aluminum of the Dillon.

While you have two options for priming with the RCBS (primer tubes or the primer strips), I prefer to do my priming offline. I usually deprime cases with a universal depriming die and tumble them before priming using the new style RCBS hand primer with the universal shellholding arrangement. I am not comfortable with any of the press mounted priming systems. I have used them but they don't give me the feel that I like when seating primers

I use the progressive press for all operations other than priming when loading more than 50 rounds. I find the RCBS powder measure to be more reliable than the Dillon appears to be.

By purchasing the interchangeable tool heads you can leave the dies set up (like the Dillon). Changing cartridges requires removing two retaining pins and swapping one tool head for the other (1 minute), swapping the shellplate (2 minutes) and adjusting the powder measure (5 minutes). The whole process takes at most 10 minutes.

I have used this press to load both pistol and rifle cartridges with good speed and quality results. It sure makes it easier to get ready for a prairie dog trip!

While I understand that Dillon's customer service is very good, I have been well pleased with the same from RCBS. They have always stood behind all of their products when I had occasion to contact them. Parts have always been supplied with no questions asked.

I doubt you could go wrong with any of the presses that have been mentioned but there is no reason at all to be concerned with the purchase of the Pro 2000.

Good luck,
Gary