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View Full Version : Any 6mm TCU afficienados here?


StevenD
02-05-2008, 11:01 PM
I have a 6mm TCU in a rifle setup and am wondering about some bullet and load data.

I would like something stronger than a varmint bullet in the 75 grain range, but, if not...

Load data for an 80 gn bullet will help.

Right now, I am at 27 gns of H4895 with an 80 gn bullet and getting about 3025 fps, which is promising.

Anyway, any info will help.

Thanks

Mntngoat
02-05-2008, 11:17 PM
Steven I have never shot mine ovr a chronograph but 55 grain Sierras are promising with 26 grains of VN 133.

Michael

StevenD
02-05-2008, 11:58 PM
Thanks Michael.

Are you shooting a pistol?

This is a dymamite little round in my rifle.

I am trying to get a little less frangible bullets to work for coyotes and perhaps even deer at close range.

Mntngoat
02-06-2008, 04:01 PM
No I have it on an encore rifle.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v648/Mntngoat/Firearms/Inventory/IMG_1154.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v648/Mntngoat/Firearms/IMG_1591.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v648/Mntngoat/Firearms/Inventory/IMG_1745.jpg

ML

StevenD
02-07-2008, 01:01 AM
Mine is not that pretty. It's on a Sako, but the stock leaves a little to be desired. I bought the action and couldn't find a stock at the time, so I carved this one out of half a blank that was used for another gun. I'd change it out, but it just shoots too nice to mess with.

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r180/StevenD55/Sako%206mm%20TCU/6mmTCUonSako.jpg


http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r180/StevenD55/Sako%206mm%20TCU/6mmTCUonSakoAction.jpg

It doesn't even look that good now, with all of the camo tape on it.

blackblue
02-07-2008, 02:47 PM
I like it.

BRUCEK
02-07-2008, 04:16 PM
Steven,

I had a rifle built in the early 80's by Wes Ugalde of Fallon, Nevada. I bleieve he desogned the cartridge. At that time the only viable bullet for varmints was a 60 grain Sierra. It would shoot quarter minute groups all day with 27-28 grains of 748 which filled the case.

I've since rebarreled the rifle because I've become a .20 nut, but used to love the rifle out to about 300 yards. I reall would consider the 55 Nosler because it is so much more frangible. You won't see the velocity with 748 that you would with some of the other powders, but I've always strived for accuracy above velocity. Good luck.

Bruce

StevenD
02-07-2008, 08:22 PM
Bruce,

TCU I think stands for Thompson Center Ugalde. You are probably right.

Do you think those bullets preserve the hides of coyotes? I don't want to blow big holes in them, if I can help it.

Thanks

JoeZ
02-08-2008, 08:59 AM
I though it was Thunder Cat Ultra. Either way a 223AI with a 6mm bullet in it would be a supper neat round.

BRUCEK
02-08-2008, 03:42 PM
The 60 grainers did not blow up on prairie dogs or ground squirrels and should work well on coyotes. The Nosler 55's might be okay because the velocity might be down a bit and they shouldn't blow up.

Bruce

eggman
02-08-2008, 05:44 PM
With 70 to 75 gr. bullets in the 6 TCU be sure to give H-335 or RS Tac powder a try. Load data for one powder will work grain for grain for the other. I think Tac burns cleaner with better ES numbers.

Rodney

StevenD
02-09-2008, 12:30 AM
The 60 grainers did not blow up on prairie dogs or ground squirrels and should work well on coyotes. The Nosler 55's might be okay because the velocity might be down a bit and they shouldn't blow up.

Bruce

I was looking at those after you mentioned it.

One thing about those 55 BT's the BC is a little higher and I can send them a little faster. The 80 gn HP Core-Lokts have a BC of only about .255 and I quit at a velocity of about 3050 when working up the loads. I probably can get close to 3400 fps out of the 55 gns, if all else holds true to form. The BC of that bullet is .273 or so. That makes it pretty respectable for reaching out there for coyotes.

StevenD
02-09-2008, 12:31 AM
With 70 to 75 gr. bullets in the 6 TCU be sure to give H-335 or RS Tac powder a try. Load data for one powder will work grain for grain for the other. I think Tac burns cleaner with better ES numbers.

Rodney

I haven't tried the TAC powder for anything yet. I could give that a try. I may need someone to run LOAD F.A.D. or Quickload or something though.

A17Shooter
02-10-2008, 07:19 AM
Check Hogdons reloading data center. Select pistol cartridges and 6 MM TCU, They have data for bullets from 70 gr to 100 gr. When trying 100 gr in my Contender pistol I had to use semi pointed as the boattails wouldn't stabilize.

StevenD
02-10-2008, 03:22 PM
Check Hogdons reloading data center. Select pistol cartridges and 6 MM TCU, They have data for bullets from 70 gr to 100 gr. When trying 100 gr in my Contender pistol I had to use semi pointed as the boattails wouldn't stabilize.

Thanks. I'll give that a try.

Johnly
02-13-2008, 04:10 PM
I have two 6mm TCU Contender Pistol barrels as well as 20" rifle barrel. I've always been impressed with the accuracy this cartridge delivers.

My only word of warning is that the Speer 6mm TCU data using H335 with 70-75 grain bullets is way too hot in my barrels. They list a charge of 31.0 grains of H335, and I'd have a stretched frame if I tried shooting that load in any of my barrels. Even a charge of 29.0 grains results is some sticky operation. Out in a hot sun during a hunt, things could get much worse.

John

Stephen Perry
04-24-2011, 05:29 AM
My 6 TCU is a Rem 722 with a Douglas Varmint weight barrel, .890 at the muzzle. The stock is original with some grain figure and a hand rubbed tru-oil finish. The rifle weighs 10.1 lb with a Leupold 12x tall turret scope. Factory trigger down to a crisp 36 oz.

On the heavy side for a carry gun but it's a Varmint rifle. For a carry rifle I like my Rem ADL 22-250 and my Savage 110 in .243.

The rifle came with 650 fire-formed brass, what an exercise. The previous owner kept good records. He favored Sierra 60-85 grn bullets along with Berger, Nosler, and Speer bullets. For powders, he tried allot of loads. Most loads were with H335, 4895, 4198, Re 7 powders. I will work with 748 and 4895 powders using WSR primers. For bullets I will try some of the 66 grn fb bullets I make along with the Sierras I have. The 6 TCU is a Ugalde design.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR

ab_bentley
04-24-2011, 05:38 AM
02-13-2008, 09:10 AM
I doubt he's watching. Adam

Stephen Perry
04-25-2011, 12:22 AM
NT

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR

TOM in SWNY
04-25-2011, 02:20 PM
My notes show 30.5 grs of 335 for 3236 Fps in a bolt gun and I called it max after the first shot. 29.5 and 70GR B-tips worked real well..

Stephen Perry
04-30-2011, 09:49 AM
My loading notes for the 6 TCU rifle, 2 pages Jacketed 1 pages Cast, shows RE 7 the best agging powder for Sierra 85's. Not much ahead of H 4198, H 4895, BLC 2. Next best bullet with same powders was Berger 65. Not talking much different as all bullets used shot well, as to expected with small caliber loading.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR

FatAlbert
05-12-2011, 05:10 PM
When I first had my rifle built I tried about every powder out there and settled on H-335. In the last year I have gone over to N133.

Stephen Perry
05-13-2011, 01:07 AM
H 335 is a great powder for small base catridges like the 6 TCU. It's worth buying a large quantity of H 335 and use it for other cartridges such as .222, .222 Mag, .223, 6x47 Remington and most of the associated wildcats made off these small base cartridges mentioned. I would suggest using WSR, CCI, Federal, and Remington primers with H 335.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR

nycstripes
05-13-2011, 01:19 AM
6TCU is one of my favorite prairie dog cartridges. With the 58gr V-Max it was ferrocious on small critters. The Sierra 60gr HP was a good substitute.
I have used H335, H322, W748 and other powders with this combination.

For the heavier bullets, you can refer to 6x47mm (6mmx222 RemMag) data which is pretty close to the 6mmTCU. Just reduce and work up the load you're working with.

harpo111
05-14-2011, 04:00 PM
i would love to have a 6mm tcu in a 14" or even a carbine. I have a 6.5 tcu..85gr sierras are mean on coyotes and armadillos... I have been using 748, rel 7 and 3031 in it....plan to play with it more with cast lymans this summer...
k

StevenD
11-21-2011, 11:59 PM
I'm coming around to this project again and am interested in any newly developed loads and experiences with a 6mm TCU, 6x45 (223) or 6x47. I am particularly interested in trying this as a big game (deer & maybe hog) hunting round at close ranges. Doubt I'd try a body shot with it though.

Thanks

Steve

UpNearTheBorder
09-19-2012, 09:23 PM
Kind of interested in this cal. Is this like an A.I. type cartridge in that you can fire it after case forming or do I
have to do a false shoulder on this? I suspect I don't but wanted to hear it from you guys. Thanks in advance.

william t. oviatt
09-19-2012, 10:08 PM
I have to create a false shoulder with the 243 Horny Toad, which is the same dimensions on the upper part of the case, just on a 221 Fireball case instead of on a 223 R case. I neck a 221FB case up to 6.5 then through the 243HT FL (or 6TCU FL die in your case) to get a good crush fit to my chamber. Now, using 222 brass so the shoulder is made in the reduction of the brass body without making the false shoulder. I think you could do the same for the 6TCU using the longer 222R Mag or the 204R brass! save the step of creating a false shoulder.
Bill

larryinIA
09-20-2012, 05:25 AM
I don't see why that wouldn't work.

Larry

shooter#42
09-20-2012, 08:20 PM
according to my records i had my 6tcu from the mid 80"s to the mid 90"s. i used to load the hornady 70gn spirepoint into the 3100/3200 fps range. the gun loved the hornady 80 grain single shot bullet loaded to 2900 fps. shot mostly fox but i did kill one deer with the 80 gr. bullet, broadside into the lungs around 100 yards. i always thought it would be an effective deer cartridge for a youngster with the old nosler 85 grain partition.

Marks
09-21-2012, 12:30 AM
StevenD,

I shoot the 6BR for most of my varmints. I like the 70gr Sierria Blitzking. They will not exit on Groundhogs most of the time. You did no say what twist your barrel is. The 87Vmax is also a great bullet, it takes a 12 tw. If your barrel is a 10tw the 90gr berger and 87gr VLD hunting are great bullets. The 87 are big game bullets. I have a 6BR 10tw pistol barrel coming for a Encore. I hope the shoot the 87's in it.

Mark Schronce

UpNearTheBorder
09-22-2012, 01:06 AM
This would be for a Contender if it's a go. I think they are a 10in twist. Wish I could get it in a 12. Does not look like there is a lot of 223 brass out there but I do like the idea of useing 222mag brass to avoid the false shoulder step. Find I have a large supply of Holister 65gr BR bullets along with other factory bullets to use up. This cal. looks to be very efficient and thinking of a short barrel. Maybe even down to 17" but if not then no longer than 22. Quickload shows about a 37fps gain/loss per inch. Is the 6TCU typically chambered longer so heavier bullets can be used? Just hopeing to reach the lands with the lighter bullets. Trying hard to justify this purchase :)

Spook
09-23-2012, 07:01 PM
using an 8 twist with 95 gr bergers.... 24gr VVN 135 and 26.3gr BLC-2 . My 223AI falls short by comparison.

william t. oviatt
10-27-2012, 01:28 PM
I have been working on loads for the 243 Horny Toad for heavier bullets. AA 1680 is super for the 55s and 60s. I tried, #7, 335. 4198, and others and just did not quite get what I was looking for.
The bench rest articles I read on loads for 6PPC raved about the AA2015, so I tried some. This is THE powder for the 75 and 87 V maxes for the Horny Toad!:eek: perfect case capacity under the bullet and VERY accurate!
Just thought I would pass this along.
Bill

dungheap
10-27-2012, 02:07 PM
This would be for a Contender if it's a go. I think they are a 10in twist. Wish I could get it in a 12. Does not look like there is a lot of 223 brass out there but I do like the idea of useing 222mag brass to avoid the false shoulder step. Find I have a large supply of Holister 65gr BR bullets along with other factory bullets to use up. This cal. looks to be very efficient and thinking of a short barrel. Maybe even down to 17" but if not then no longer than 22. Quickload shows about a 37fps gain/loss per inch. Is the 6TCU typically chambered longer so heavier bullets can be used? Just hopeing to reach the lands with the lighter bullets. Trying hard to justify this purchase :)
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Unless I missed something important earlier in the thread, I don't know why you'd want to use (expensive) .222 Mag brass to do 6mm TCUs, but if you're bent on doing that for some odd reason, I think you'd be farther ahead to make 'em out of .204 Ruger brass. That being said, though, if I were working with a 6mm TCU or a 6x45 (same thing??), I'd make 'em out of military .223 brass in a heartbeat, or any other .223 brass for that matter. Full length size the .223s, expand the necks and fireform. If you're looking at a custom Contender barrel with a specific twist, why not try Bullberry or Bellm? I would think either of them would build a barrel to your specs. For bullets you'd be able to use with that size case, a 10 or 12 twist should be fine.

For two cents worth that you didn't ask for, though, for the money you're going to spend on this, I'd look into building this on a Savage action of any kind. Maybe the same $$ involved, but you won't have to put up with the frustration you'll experience with the Contender carbine. Jus' sayin'!!

william t. oviatt
10-27-2012, 02:56 PM
DH,

The TCU case requires fire forming and the change in dimension is far less if the shoulder is made from the cartridge column, than from having to make a "false shoulder" as required if standard 223 brass is used. This is because of the greater 40 degree shoulder on the TCU and the fact that it is a rimless cartridge head spacing on the shoulder.

There are other ways to make the brass, but if consistency in the end product is important, then starting with the longer brass makes better TCU cartridges.

If you look at the 223R & the 6TCU brass side by side, it becomes very obvious as to the issues of making cases.
Just my thoughts.
Bill

UpNearTheBorder
10-27-2012, 05:53 PM
@DH here is what I was looking at and thought it might fit into an Allen TC pistol berrel storage compartment. It will but not with a scope mounted. Still is tempting though: http://www.bullberry.com/csale.html

AzSam
10-28-2012, 04:34 AM
After shooting a 7TCU for a few years and having the same above mentioned issues due to shoulder position on the parent case and the need to fireform, I opted to go with 222 Rem Mag brass when I bought my 6TCU. It was a heck of lot easier, I use the same process on the other end of the scale with my 338-06AI and 280 Rem brass. No more expanding the necks then necking back down or jamming bullets into the lands. In both situations the shoulder of the parent case is pushed back to a slight crush fit. All the best Michael

moorepower
10-28-2012, 03:57 PM
There is a ton of 6X45 info out there as popular as it is in the AR platform. I think alot of guys are using 8208. The 75 V-max is very popular. One of the two lowers I bought last week is going to be a 1-9 6X45. I know it is not a TCU, but has to be really close.

herpestes
11-17-2012, 05:17 PM
have formed brass for the 6 tcu from both 223 military and commercial brass. sometime the military brass would require a second firing because the shoulder from the first firing was still rounded. using 70gr. head in a bullberry 22" barrel for a t/c contender.

UpNearTheBorder
11-17-2012, 08:24 PM
@ herpestes. Are you bumping up the neck above .243 to make a false shoulder or did you have the chamber reamer made special or...... ? Let us know how you do your cases for the first fireing.

herpestes
11-17-2012, 09:07 PM
run 223 brass thru redding 6mm tcu fl die w/ taper expander ball. using 4198 on the upper end of the scale for 70gr speer tnt for forming. seated bullet just touching rifling. if using military brass it may help to unanneal before forming

3 shots

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t156/herpestes/2012-11-17_12-47-15_927.jpg

current load using

70 gr noslers bt
ww cases
23.5 grs imr 4198
cci br-4 primers

redrock ranger
11-18-2012, 02:50 PM
A nice group. I'm impressed.
I've entertained myself with a 6 x 222 mag Ackley. 70 Sierra Blitz King @ 3200 fps.Hope it reaches your accuracy level.

william t. oviatt
11-18-2012, 04:33 PM
That looks just like the dime I used to have!:eek:
Mine did not have a hole in it, though! So, I guess it is a different one!;)
Bill

herpestes
11-18-2012, 09:23 PM
^^ hahaha......it's also a dime that i used to have. ;)

kf

stephen perry 1
11-30-2012, 05:04 PM
I responded earlier on the 6 TCU loading Thread. To refresh I have a Rem 722 that has a Douglas 6mm varmint barrel chambered 6 TCU.

Today a rainy day I am starting to size 50 Winchester cases .223 fire formed twice to 6 TCU. The 6 TCU is a tricky case to set up sizing dies, Short neck and 40-60 degree shoulder takes extra care so as to not buldge (balloon) the shoulder. The ballon comes when the the inside of die is set too far down actually forming another case, such improper sizing probably will not chamber anyway. Bad ju ju.

When you size any bottle neck case watch the lube line on the neck after sizing trying to keep the neck sizing portion of your die from moving into the shoulder portion. Ideally you will see your lube line stopping at the juncture of the neck and shoulder. Back off if in doubt, never size so much that you start to put a roll on the case body /shoulder sharp line that fire forming gives you.

My barrel is 21 1/2" stiff .890" muzzle. Leupold 12X AO scope. Factory trigger adjusted to 36 oz. Factory tru-oiled stock. 10lb rifle. Nice gun.

I load bullets I make 66 grn. and any factory bullets I also load Sierra, Hornady, Speer makes little difference as primers little difference, I have most brands. For powder my go to ones are 748, 322, 4198, 4895.

Nice gun to shoot, minimal recoil. Not as accurate as my 6x47 Remington but not for hire or sale.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR