First Bullets

[John Parrish]

I finally got my Blackmon dies and have made my first few 6MM bullets. I have a couple of questions about my results.

1) What final diameter (pressure ring at the base and the area between the base and where the ogive starts) should I be expecting?

2) When I remove the jacket/core from the core seating die, I see a mark at the base of the jacket. It starts at the base and spirals up the jacket about 1/8", and makes a bit more than one full revolution around the jacket. Any idea what can be causing this mark, and how can I get rid of it?

Thanks

John

[Mntngoat]

John can you post a picture of the mark on your bullets?

ML

[John Parrish]

I'll try to figure out how to post pictures tomorrow. Thanks

John

[MightyThor]

I finally got my Blackmon dies and have made my first few 6MM bullets. I have a couple of questions about my results.

1) What final diameter (pressure ring at the base and the area between the base and where the ogive starts) should I be expecting?

2) When I remove the jacket/core from the core seating die, I see a mark at the base of the jacket. It starts at the base and spirals up the jacket about 1/8", and makes a bit more than one full revolution around the jacket. Any idea what can be causing this mark, and how can I get rid of it?

Thanks

John

Well, I believe that 6mm is same as 243 so your diameter should be .243 I have an old die that makes 224 bullets at .226 I was not completely satisfied and aquired a set of corbin dies that make .224 on the button and .243 dead on as well. If you are getting weird marks on the jackets and oversize bullets you may be seating the cores to hard. I read somewhere that you should not seat the cores using the breakover part of the press stroke cause it is easy to generate too much pressure and either bulge the die or get other weird results. I find that If I keep die set deep I can "feel" the lead seat in the jacket. I have not done any 30 cal stuff so can't speak to the effort needed there, but all the way up to 25 cal I find it does not really take too much pressure to seat the core.

[John Parrish]

I have not heard the concern about using the "breakover part of the press". That is how I currently have the die / press set up. I'll re-adjust it this afternoon and give this advice a try (to see if it has any effect on the marks on the bullets). Thanks

John

[Mntngoat]

John you want the cores seated firmly but without bleed by the punch. On 20 caliber bullets, since the jackets are formed from .224" jackets you have to seat them to form out the base of the jackets. .243" jackets that should not be an issue.

ML

[george ulrich]

john, glad you have got your die's. normal dia's. pressure ring should be about .0002 larger than bearing surface. not sure about other mark picture would help alot. also you can control diameters with type and amount of lube used. george

[John Parrish]

john, glad you have got your die's. normal dia's. pressure ring should be about .0002 larger than bearing surface. not sure about other mark picture would help alot. also you can control diameters with type and amount of lube used. george

Hi George. Good to hear from you.

I've got a few pictures. Working on figuring out how to attach them. Hope to have a couple pictures posted soon. As for the pressure ring, I am getting about .0004 larger than the bearing surface. How can I control this with the lube?

John

[John Parrish]

:confused: OK, this is obviously beyond me. Can anyone tell me how I can attach pictures (that I have on my computer) onto a post on this site? Thanks

John

[Mntngoat]

John you need to host the photos on a photo site before youcan load them to your message.
If you'd like I will post them for you just email them to me.

MSLiechty AT Yahoo DOT Com

ML

[Mntngoat]

John I spoke to George U. yesterday and he said it sounds like a deformed core issue of possible the punches.
Have you spoke to Blackmon yet?
Outside of the marks they look good.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v648/Mntngoat/Firearms/5954909f.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v648/Mntngoat/Firearms/5a96c5cc.jpg

Michael

[John Parrish]

John I spoke to George U. yesterday and he said it sounds like a deformed core issue of possible the punches.
Have you spoke to Blackmon yet?
Outside of the marks they look good.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v648/Mntngoat/Firearms/5954909f.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v648/Mntngoat/Firearms/5a96c5cc.jpg

Michael

I tried to conatact him last night. I'll try again this evening. How can a punch issie cause these marks?

[Al Nyhus]

John, what's the diameter of the external punch for your point up die? -Al

[John Parrish]

John, what's the diameter of the external punch for your point up die? -Al

Al:

Are you talking about the punch that ejects the bullet from the die after forming? If so, this diameter is .0627". Why do you ask?

John

[georgeld]

I had a sample sent recently with marks like that.
I believe they're caused by a scored die bore from running dirty jackets
into the die.
I've caused it on sizing dies, even once on carbide. dirty case I saw just as it went in and wasn't quick enough to stop the stroke til too late.

A good polishing should take it out. Have doubts if the makers of these will back it up like Lee or rcbs will their dies. Sure pays to be careful of what you put in them. Can happen so quick it's hard to believe.

[John Parrish]

I believe they're caused by a scored die bore from running dirty jackets
into the die.

Any other possible causes? These showed up when the first jacket came out of the die. I verified the die and the jackets were squeaky clean before seating the cores.
John

[Al Nyhus]

Al:

Are you talking about the punch that ejects the bullet from the die after forming? If so, this diameter is .0627". Why do you ask?

John

John, I'm refering to the diameter of the external punch...the one that pushes against the base of the jacket and pushes the cored jacket into the point up die. -Al

[John Parrish]

Al:

I'll get the names for each of the pieces figured out soon. The diameter of the external punch is right on .243". Why do you ask?

John

[georgeld]

John:
Have you checked the edge of the bottom punch? IS it rough and maybe overly large, or out of alignment with the bullet you're pushing in the die? Where the pin might be running against the bore to scratch it?

It's possible he let it slip out the door without final polishing of the bore. I still think that can be polished out. But, it's going to take several minutes and tries.
IF it came that way and sounds like it did. You should be able to swap it to the maker for a good one, or else he should fix it up.

Good luck, let us know how it turns out and what he has to say.

[Al Nyhus]

George knows what I'm getting at. :)

If the leading edge of the punch has a raised 'lip', it can cause a mark. I've dinged a punch on my .30 setup..so I've been where you are.

Just something to check...make sure the leading edge isn't 'belled' or has a lip on it.

Hope this helps. -Al

[george ulrich]

on the core seating die?if the internal punch was burred you wouldn't get it in the die theres only .0001 clearance.

[georgeld]

Al:
How hard are those Corbin punch's??
Will they snap off before they bell the tips? OR bend?

What we're referring to would be the same thing as the head of a punch or chisel head belling over from hammering on it. Same effect.
You should be able to feel whether the very edge is smooth or might have a slight burr on it. IF there's a burr, and you don't want to mess with it. Send it back to the maker. IF you don't mind and have a good smooth wheel or stone. Just smooth it off and it should be good.

IF that's not the problem at all. THen there's scratch's inside the bore of the die and like you say it's brand new. Return it for a swap, or final polishing. SHouldn't be any hassle or problem in the maker doing that. IF it won't void the warranty and you've got fine grit, paper, or 4/0 wool just polish it out. Shouldn't be too major a job to slick it up "good enough". Much of that depends on how particular you are. You can get into a pissing contest over how fine a finish it needs, or others think it needs though.

1000 -1200 grit whether paper, or 4/0 wool, or compound should be more than slick enough to not mar a bullet jacket.
Al, how far off am I?

Good luck,

[george ulrich]

i think it's already decided its an internal problem with core seater.the finish isn't about marring jackets its about ejection. if its not smooth enough it will be a problem. george

[rjjahner]

I have 3 sets of dies from blackmon. 22 and 30 cal FB and 30 Cal BT dies... The BT DIES ARE RARE.. Email me at jahner.bullets@yahoo.com if you absolutely have any questions at all I have dealt with many problems and fixed all of them so far and make BR bullets. Ryan

[John Parrish]

When I get my core seat die back from Larry and I can get back to making bullets, I will most likely take you up on your offer. Thanks John

[J. Valentine]

Adjusting your dies to go over center is ok if you are careful about the pressure you use. Only set for the minimum pressure to properly seat the core. The problem with using the constant pressure feel method is that after a few hundred pulls or pushes on the handle you get tired and cores are seated with different pressures as a result.
The jackets should stay in the die and require a slight amount of ejection pressure to indicate that they have come up to diameter in the core seating die.
It is a matter of personal choice as both methods can produce good results.
If you are unsure of how to set the dies properly then use the constant pressure method as it is safer untill you are more experienced.
The marks on the bullet are from a poor internal bore finish I would say.

[John Parrish]

I'd like to thank everyone on this site that's offered advice in my learning curve in making my first bullets. I had my first chance to test the new bullets my dad and I made this past weekend. I shot a two-day match in Tacoma, Washington. I'm pleased to say that both my dad's bullets and my bullets both shot quite well. Thanks again.

John