Is it worth it?

[Ksmirk]

Ok since I've never seen how bullets are made but have an idea is it really worth it? I'm not trying to be negative or anything just really curious about makeing bullets (mostly like the 308 SMK's) but would just like to know if the investment in equipment and what you get is worth it? I'm on the fence here fella's since bullets are up to dang near $30 a hundred and I like to practice my LR shooting so I don't loose it. Let me know your opinions and see if you can't push me one way or the other so I can get off this fence. Later,

Kirk

[A17Shooter]

Here is a link to Corbin's web site you might check the prices on their equipment and components while you wait for some mentor to clue you in.

Corbin's (http://www.corbins.com/index.htm)

I've made a few 17's but the equipment sits in the garage waiting for my next inspiration. :)

[georgeld]

A17: want to part with it?? send me a pm/em about it. I'd like to get into .17's before long.

Ksmirk:
Depends on how deep your pockets are, time you have to spend working at making things. Whether it means anything to you to get decent results from something you've made from scratch or not. Corbins has always been about five time's the price I've been willing to pay. That's why I dont' have them yet. Yrs ago they were $90, 160 a set. Now they're crowding a grand for the same thing. Hey what??? NFW for me.

But, yet, I've shot a few thousand from others that came from their dies and was satisfied with the results. Mostly I burn thousands every summer on p/dogs. IF I'm using homemade bullets, at least I've got an excuse when I miss. Right? but, they're good enough a man shouldn't miss to at least 300 yds or more just because of the bullets.

I cast by the buckets full for the wheel guns. Spend about three weeks casting in the late fall and winter before it turns cold. THat way I've got a winters loading I can do inside. They'll then last all summer jsut about no matter how much shooting I get done. For a long time I was shooting three nights a week and 300-500 rnds a night. So yes, it paid off there, especially as it was indoors and only 50ft range handguns.

Winters here in CO keep us off the range for months, so don't get as much burned up as I'd like. Then in the summer, life is happening and it's hard to get away very much, or for long. SO when I do get to go, it's long hard days of shooting.

To me, Iv'e got more time to make them than I do the money to spend on factory. I also get a big boost of pleasure out of good results from something I've made. I just refuse to shoot factory ammo. Trade it in for loading supplies when it comes in.

Hope this gives you something to consider.

[Ksmirk]

Well here's a little more info, I would be making bullets for my 17 Rem, 223, 243, and 308. the 17 and 223 would be strickly p-dog bullets the 243 and 308 are for my LR rigs and yes they would have to be very good! my job would not allow me to do it any different I'm in Quality Control so I'm way to picky by nature :rolleyes: the 243 would be in weights of 105-115 and the 308 I'd be looking at 155-168.

Spare time I have some and my loading stuff is inside the house so weather is not all that bad here in Oklahoma pretty much get to shoot all the year and have been looking at the ft matches. AnywayI've been loading for to long and it's late catch you guys later.

Kirk

[georgeld]

where in OK?

[iiranger]

Well here's a little more info, I would be making bullets for my 17 Rem, 223, 243, and 308. the 17 and 223 would be strickly p-dog bullets the 243 and 308 are for my LR rigs and yes they would have to be very good! my job would not allow me to do it any different I'm in Quality Control so I'm way to picky by nature :rolleyes: the 243 would be in weights of 105-115 and the 308 I'd be looking at 155-168.

Spare time I have some and my loading stuff is inside the house so weather is not all that bad here in Oklahoma pretty much get to shoot all the year and have been looking at the ft matches. AnywayI've been loading for to long and it's late catch you guys later.

Kirk

Since you are in QC you would probably be "right" for this. Basically, you can hand make a bullet that "weighs" (mass comparision) more closely to others than the factory can. It is hand work and you have to like it or you go "nuts." In better barrels it buys you a small increase in accuracy. Then there are the savings if the scrap yard will save/sell you the old lead pipe, much less common now, roof flashings, things that were almost pure lead.

17 and .224 and .243 could be made from rimfire jackets at smaller costs. (Not .243 in 105, probably...) There are two corbins, brothers who don't agree completely (surprise)... Dave, corbins.com and Richard, rceco.com. Richard had dies for use in the heavy reloading press like Rockchucker for $225. per set/caliber. Another set for making the rimfire case into a jacket, $65.00 I think. So if you have a Rockchucker press... Many don't know that RCBS stands for Rock Chucker Bullet Swage. Mr. Huntington got his start making dies to make bullets...

Might want to price jackets at brunoshooters.com. J-4s. Corbin has dies to make a .30 in the heavy press. Corbin, dave also sells jackets.

If you "like it" you can be happy and save. If you bore easily... Thorazine, straight jackets, etc. Your call. luck.

[Ksmirk]

georgeld I live in the thriving metropolis of OKC you close around?

iiranger, yes sir I am one of those guys that will find the most tidious thing and play with it for hours! where I work we have a mess of scrap lead from some gaskets we make for a customer :-) and jackets from 22 rimfire cases? never heard of that but hey if it works a couple of trips to the range and wow all the stuff I could pick up! I'd kinda like to actually see someone that has the stuff and the process that is involved I can get a good idea from reading but if I can SEE it I normally figure it out PDQ! anyone in Oklahoma that makes bullets wanna show me how? one thing I was thinking is that can you get a 22 rimfire case to stretch out far enough to make a 30 cal bullet that is 1.230-1.250"? Later,

Kirk

[georgeld]

Kirk:
nah, I'm in Pueblo.

Go to: www.castboolits.gunloads.com/swaging, there's a bunch of threads there with quite a few pictures of the stages and tooling.

Oh man, gather up that soft lead! Form/melt it into 3/4"x4" round plugs and you'll have it made for making lead wire to produce the cores from. Then just clip off to length is the way it looks. Corbins dies have a bleed hole the excess exits out from. Those are supposed to make bullets to desired wts. The way I read it at least.

Simple pin, push thru die set for a loading press to swage the rim off the l/r cases. Lube, and push 'em, wash the lube off, bake 'em in the oven to soften. Then swage the cores in, last step is pointing them up. After that, it's polishing. That's the way I read it.
One of the guys there sent me a few samples of each step a couple weeks ago. Slick and easy, don't look any harder to do than reloading.

Soon as I can, intend to make the dies to do it all with on this sorry lathe I have. Taking it easy, I can produce some amazing items even though it won't turn a length straight.

[iiranger]

[ and jackets from 22 rimfire cases? never heard of that but hey if it works a couple of trips to the range and wow all the stuff I could pick up!

Where you been all your life??? Two men in Lincoln NE got their start making bullets from rimfire jackets WW II and after. You may have heard of them. Joyce Hornady and Vern Speer. Joyce moved to Grand Island, NE and Vern moved farther west.

Point, this was common. Harv Donaldson wrote of making bullets in dies he made and an arbor press...

Mr. Corbin, Dave at corbins.com has online his books without pictures where you can read of the process, download for study, etc. , step by step. BIGGIE! You need to hold velocity down to about 3200 or less or the jackets come apart, and supposedly the fast twist .223 barrels are hard on them too. 222 works great.

No, I doubt you can get a 1.2 jacket for a .30 from a long rifle case, but .22 Magnum cases have been used, Dave says, for up to 7mm. Awful thin. Target bullet at .308 velocity? Maybe. .300 Winchester mag? Doubt it. luck.

[iiranger]

Oh yes, Dave also has a list of custom bullet makers on his web site. All over the world. [They use Corbin made dies to make bullets! Surprise! ...] You can probably find someone close that will "show you around." luck

[iiranger]

and jackets from 22 rimfire cases? never heard of that

Oh yes III,

Stever at .303british.com makes/sells rimfire jacket bullets and has pictures of his work posted... more at graybeardoutdoors.com under bullet making too. luck.

[Ksmirk]

WOW all sorts of stuff to think about! and where have I been? well I've not been in this world all that long just getting started at 38 :rolleyes: been loading and shooting LR since I was well I have always shot what most think is too far! velocity over 3200fps dang it! my 223 will really screw with that then but the 308 which is shot a lot more would prob like them and the 243. Well the dies that I was thinking about getting and the lead might be put off a little bit don't seem to work there anymore! but it was on good terms since I knew they had all that lead :D and since they fired me maybe they will feel bad about it and give me a break on price! Thanks fella's and I'll catch up with ya later.

Kirk

[georgeld]

Talk to 'em about it then.
Sorry about the job. Happens to some of us.
Best cure for that?? Start your own business!
I did, best deal of my life. One major mistake.
Didn't buy income protection insurance. Those two yrs til
SS started ruined me. SO, anyone in business for themselves.
Get the minimum of two yrs insurance before you even buy groceries!
BTDT, can't find better advice anywhere for the price.

Good luck,

[J. Valentine]

I think in the long run it is a decision you have to want to make.
You have to want to make your own bullets.
Its the same motivation that makes people want to reload and fit barrels etc etc.
If someone has to talk you into it well maybe you are not ready just yet.
I personally found bullet swaging a natural progression after reloading and tuning rifles .
Once I perfect something I move on.
The satisfaction comes in all different ways to different people.
Some will rejoice in the consistant accuracy they achieve others just the fact that they have made their own.
I think if you take it on with visions of selling bullets and making money then it becomes a business not a pleasure.

[georgeld]

JV:
believe you've got it nailed there.
Same with reloads. IF friends want some now and then, swap 'em, donate a few etc. But, for a business? Then it becomes a drudgery/have to deal. Takes the pleasure out of it for me.

[J. Valentine]

Making a reasonable jacket from a long rifle rimfire case is an art in itself.
First you have to have a drawing punch with a good shape to the head of the punch. It is a wasp type shape that gats fatter at the top.
This irons out the rim and balloons the head of the jacket a bit to stretch the rim right out.
Second is another straight punch of slightly larger diameter to redraw it all straight.
When you point form the bullets you usea cup base point forming base punch
(Convex punch ) This will leave a concave base to the bullet that will further reduce the effect of brands and rim marks on accuracy.
Thirdly to drive them at higher velocities , core bonding can be employed, to stop jacket shedding.
However no matter how much you try they will never shoot as good as bullets made with good quality commercial jackets.
Although I have acheaved around 1 MOA with the ones I made in the past.

[Bayou City Boy]

Bullet making isn't something everyone probably wants to get involved in. It is tedious work making a good bullet.

On the other hand, I have bought very few factory 20 caliber bullets over the years because I feel I can make a better bullet than I can buy. I actually bought my bullet making set up before there was much of a factory bullet list - pre-204 Ruger days...

It takes a pretty good initial investment for a good set of dies, but either of the Corbin brothers plus others can get you going in fine style.

One of the first posts in this section is about making bullets in some detail. You might want to look back at it...

JMO - BCB

[Ksmirk]

Make bullets for a living? HELL NO! I'm just looking to better a good thing if that makes any sense, I would like to be able to make my own bullets for my LR addiction getting to where a common Joe is hard pressed to buy SMK's in any volume but I guess everything is getting more expensive!

Yes sir going into business for myself would be great! right now it's not a great option but I'm working on it, trying to relocate back to small town America so I can try to enjoy a little and I just hate the city life. Fella's I really appreciate all your help and the places you have sent me to go get more information a big THANKS to ya! Later,

Kirk

[georgeld]

Making bullets is about the same as reloading. Just half a dozen or so simple, easy steps that require the proper tools, time and effort to produce. Like most everything else in life a man might make himself. A little talent, desire and care in making a decent product helps produce much better bullets, or anythng else for that matter.

JV: in my Sako rebarreled .223 when it was fresh. Another shooter and I combined all our bullets 55gr and less. Ended up with 19 from 35-55gr. My standard all the time load is: 25gr 4895, or at that time 23gr AA2200 regardless of bullet. THey were all loaded the same.
I am not a believer in loading as hot as possible. I no longer drive that way either. I see no point at all in running anything at the max. Guns, women, cars, or even throwing rocks at passing cars. Just a good average is much better than burning things up. Life's lessons from doing so for yrs has convinced me of the folly of such nonsense, but, yes, it did take me quite a few yrs to figure those things out. Whether you agree or not is your business.

The results of sorting bullets with that load and the fresh barrel was fun, and I learned a lot. Two of the bullets were made of .22 jackets even!!
Guess what? both of those two made about 3/4" groups.
40gr V max were one holers, about as tight a groups as I've ever fired. .230" for five shots. The homemades were from a now closed business in MT. They were nice looking, well made bullets selling for $6/100.

Amazing as it may seem, 40gr orange tipped Noslers produced 1 1/4" the best they'd do. That was ONE sample, of course another box, or batch may produce the best of all. I was merely wanting to see what the new barrel would do, had my load figured out. Had never 'sorted bullets' before, for sure not to this extent. and No, I didn't work at a dozen other things and ways trying to 'develop the most accurate load either.

First batch was five of each, sorted and kept apart for record. All that were not under an inch were discarded after the first five shots. The tightest four I loaded ten more of each of those for final sorting.

Scientific? No. Good enough to satisfy most of Saubier shooters? I doubt it. Good enough to satisfy GEORGE? Shore was.

I've settled on the cheapest 55gr I can find by the buckets full for p/dogging. 40gr Vmax for around livestock, ranch's where I need to impress the ranchers with diligent care and such things that do matter most, special care in not shooting unless a miss will hit the ground fairly close to the target. I don't want any richochet's. These things were my ideas and goals. At the time it was plenty to satisfy me. So far, I've stuck with the same results until running out of 2200, since then I've fallen back on old reliable 4895.

[J. Valentine]

George , I like Sako's also and have two . A 22-250 varmint A11 and a .308 sporter A11.
I make a 144 grain PPFB 308 bullet and a 180 grain PPFB core bonded bullet.
Use the 144 in the 308 and the 180 in a 30-06 Mauser .
Would upload a photo but it will not work.

[georgeld]

JV:
They're beautiful guns I think.
The 7mmag I have is the finest rifle I own, but, seldom shoot it. Too nice to scab up. I take it elk hunting, but ,seldom get it out of the case. Have shot three animals with it, all one shot kills. Doubt it has 200rnds thru it. Beautiful wood.
One major thing I really like on Sakos, is the dovetailed bases milled into the actions. Best system I know of. Seems like I saw Ruger doing that on something, but, never seen one yet. Is that correct?

[J. Valentine]

JV:
They're beautiful guns I think.
The 7mmag I have is the finest rifle I own, but, seldom shoot it. Too nice to scab up. I take it elk hunting, but ,seldom get it out of the case. Have shot three animals with it, all one shot kills. Doubt it has 200rnds thru it. Beautiful wood.
One major thing I really like on Sakos, is the dovetailed bases milled into the actions. Best system I know of. Seems like I saw Ruger doing that on something, but, never seen one yet. Is that correct?

Tikka has the same dovetail system as Sako . I am not sure about Ruger.
There is one drawback to the Sako tapered dovetail base.
If you drop your Sako onto its kick pad onto a hard surface accidently , the scope can slide right off and smack the ocular lense against the ground.
It happened to me once and I made a lightning grab at the gun and ended up with the scope in my right hand and the gun in the left just as it hit the concrete floor.

I have never had a problem in the field.

[georgeld]

Don't sound like the screws were tight enough if it came off.
Never had that happen on either of my guns since 73.
make sure the contact surfaces are clean and dry, then torque them down to specs, or plenty if you can't find out how much is enough.

[J. Valentine]

It can happen even if the screws are tight with the older two piece mounts. They have basicly a thumb wheel to tighten them not a machine screw or allen head. They are difficult to get tight and if you overtighten them you can bend them at the base.
If a gun is dropped hard on ist's butt on a concrete floor they can move.
There may have been some rubbish in the dovetail at the time . It is possible.
However I have heard of it happening to a guy who dropped his rifle onto rocks while climbing around after goats and the butt hit the rocks hard and the scope came off and cracked the ocular lens. The gun was not badly damaged at all , just the scope slid off.
The newer Sako optilock mounts can grip tighter than the old mounts.
The scope only has to move a fraction backwards to be free on a taper mount.
Recoil goes the other way pushing it on harder.
You never see a taper mount on a Miltary rifle that I can recall.
I am not nocking the Sako taper dovetail , I love them for quick scope changes and holding zero.