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Dan C
09-24-2006, 12:44 AM
Max Dunlevy, the proprietor of Black Hole bullets, offered to sell me his impressive set of bullet making equipment some time back. I lack both the money and the time to take on such an endeavor, but was really hoping that somebody rich like Wenzl or Alex Clarke (and most of you others) might take it on.

Max makes some very interesting stuff like the 29 grain ULD 20 caliber and others. I'd love to see somebody dive in and make a go of it...

17VLD?

Ric?

Alex?

Steve Grant???

GLWenzl
09-24-2006, 01:04 AM
I know you are reading this... come on whatcha think??? Or do you already have more bullet making equipment than you need????

Or how about Mike Moberley??? He makes some very nice high quality custom bullets….

Myself I vote that Dan C retires from the RR and makes bullets (for free LOL)!

Good post Dan!! Hope someone can put it to good use… Oh BTW I only have BIG dreams and lots of ambition… no $$$ here….

Skypilotbc
09-24-2006, 01:20 AM
Max lives about 20 miles from me and I have been over to visit (put to work) a couple times. He sure wanted me to take the business, but like you Dan, just not enough of the money or time available to do it. He is one nice guy. Tried to call him a few weeks ago and got no answer. Hope he is doing OK.
Bob

17VLD
09-24-2006, 02:45 AM
I would love to see one of our brethren adopt such an endeavor.
Me thinks I'd love to try bullet making,but I have a lot of things that should come first,a lathe being one of the bigger items.
TTFN
Matt

Stephen Grant
09-24-2006, 03:07 AM
I went down to visit him the first week of Sept.

He is in quite a bit of pain but he's a tough bird. His condition just won't allow him to stand of any length of time to make bullets, which is a shame because that’s how he maintains contact with the shooting community that he dearly loves.

It would be great if someone could pick up the bullet operation because as Dan said Max made some awesome bullets.

If anyone would like to take time visit Max on the phone, his number is 913-341-1720. A word of encouragement from a comrade would be a priceless gift to him right now.

“But for the grace of God there go I”

Dan C
09-24-2006, 09:26 AM
Here is a pic of a 20 Duster loaded with the bullet I mentioned, the 29 grain ULD Diamond tip. Next the the BH bullet is a Sierra 32. It's a racy looking devil, and at 4300 fps is hell on wheels on rockchucks!:D
http://highxj.home.bresnan.net/Dusterbh.jpg

Skypilotbc
09-24-2006, 02:47 PM
Here is one of the 36gr VLD I "helped" Max make for Stephen. These bullets are gem-like. It would be a shame if someone as dedicated as Max could not continue this operation.
http://photos.imageevent.com/skypilotbc/images/websize/Picture%20117a.JPG
Bob

Stephen Grant
09-24-2006, 06:06 PM
really made the 204 MAXI-TAC sing in two years ago in WY. I think I have a few left, I'd better make them count.

Bayou City Boy
09-24-2006, 09:47 PM
Does the bullet shown in the container have an inverted base or is it just the way it looks in the picture?

-BCB

GLWenzl
09-24-2006, 11:25 PM
http://i10.tinypic.com/2cei3w8.jpg

Like these 20 caliner 45s!!

Stephen Grant
09-25-2006, 01:51 AM
Though the one you have in the picture are cupped base and I wouldn't venture a guess as to why but they seem to be some of the most accurate I've ever shot.

Alex
09-25-2006, 02:28 AM
... a guy like Dan C., who has every known caliber rifle ever listed, thinks I'm rich. I might have been if I hadn't made friends with the likes of the guys on this forum in addition to being a Cooperholic. The 12 step thing just doesn't work on this one.

I've never tried Max' bullets, but have talked to him several times. Like Clint Starke said, it's a lot of work and the profit level isn't good at all.

Alex

Skypilotbc
09-25-2006, 05:04 AM
He had the dies to do the rebated base, but said he believed the cup-base was superior--I would tend to agree, based on what I have seen from them in the field. Laser-beam trajectory:D Wish I had made a few thousand for myself.
Bob

ogre6br
09-25-2006, 12:45 PM
as a rough guide-what sort of $$ are we talking about here??

And what sort of time investment isrequired to manufacturer??

I'm between jobs right now.

Thanks
later
p

Skypilotbc
09-25-2006, 02:55 PM
The equipment and supplies Max had offered to me totaled around $15,000. It is a time-consuming effort, made more so by his perfectionism. He told me that, once you got the "system" down, a run of 200 could be done in an evening. If one devoted "full-time job" philosophies to it, 1,000 or more/day would seem possible.
Bob

Mntngoat
09-25-2006, 03:49 PM
I asked Clint about it some time ago, and if good dies are used, it is possible, to scratch out a nice side income, but then you need shoulder surgery from yanking on a press all day.

I think finding the right market is key.

Michael

jim saubier
09-25-2006, 04:38 PM
not sure if most know it or not, but my father and I make benchrest bullets, 30 caliber weighing from 112 - 118 grains in weight, using J4 jackets, on Neimi carbide dies. Investment was near $5,000 for dies, presses, equipment, some lead wire, some jackets, and miscellaneous stuff. Prices have gone up some for the equipment, but I am doubtful that we could ever wear out the dies that we have, being carbide.

things to consider, you need to pull the handle on the press 3 times to make a bullet. 1 time to squirt the core, one time to seat the core and one time to point up the bullet. more description and pics of the process are coming, my father will be adding some information to this forum on bullet making, as well we have Randy Robinett as a member here to add his 2 cents (or more if we are lucky).

force required to point up a 30 caliber bullet is a lot, as such, we have RockChucker presses, with extended length handles (close to 6" for point up as i recall). 17 caliber or 20 caliber would be a breeze in comparison. There are quite a few steps required to make great bullets, not sure which ones you might cut out to make good bullets that are reasonably priced and perform very well.

Expense items: Jackets (j4) and lead wire. Both of these metals have increased in price drastically in the last 2 years. All pricing is by bucket, and 1" .30 caliber jackets are 1,000 per bucket. .17 caliber, typical jacket length for 25 grain bullets is something like 4,000 or 5,000 jackets per bucket. Lead wire is by the pound, so you can see that the price to make a .17 cal bullet would be a lot less than say a .30 caliber bullet, but our bullets would sell for $275.00 per thousand. We don't do it as an income, but more out of satisfaction. i'm not sure what kind of living could be made at it, but would guess that it would need to be a labor of love type deal.

Bayou City Boy
09-25-2006, 07:14 PM
I have been hand swaging my own 20 caliber bullets since 2000. Back then there were not a lot of factory offerings - 33 grain Hornady and 36 grain Berger.

My original investment was just over $2K with hardened steel dies, a bullet swaging press, and a lead wire cutter plus lead wire and bullet jackets. The hardened steel dies will supposedly produce @ 200,000 bullets before they become worn beyond tolerance specs. I'm 58, and I don't figure I will make/shoot enough 20 caliber bullets for me to worry about it beyond that point.:D

However, to produce bullets commercially, you would likely need at least one set of carbide steel dies which are infinitely higher priced and are designed to produce significantly larger volumes of bullets over time. If anything broke, you would need a way to have new punches, etc. quickly built, or you would be out of business waiting on parts. That's why I mentioned an extra set of dies might be necessary if you have orders to fill. Or be a good machinist yourself to produce the needed parts.

As others have mentioned, it is indeed a labor of love and I can't see how anyone could make a lot of money doing it without a completely automated bullet making process. Doing it one crank of the handle at a time is a very tedious and repetitive process. As Bob mentioned, 1000 per day is probably doable, but you would indeed be tired at the end of the day.

I still like making my own bullets even today as I can make a better, more accurate bullet for my own needs than I can buy off the shelf. However, doing it to sell for $25-30 per hundred to other folks would not be worth the effort required, in my estimation. Not to mention the physical problems you'd probably experience from all the repetitive motion involved over time.

If you want to make bullets to sell commercialy and to make a decent profit, I would recommend buying an automated high volume machine. Anything less would not be productive if making money is your sole objective.

JMO - BCB

Pappy
10-03-2006, 07:39 PM
they're made with jackets from .22 shells. Is that true? I know lots of people do that, but I've never tried it.

rjjahner
02-26-2008, 02:55 AM
What do you have to do to get a nice silver tip like that? is that in the bullet swagging process? I have the setup but curious how you did that? Thanks Ryan

Cajun Blake
02-26-2008, 03:35 AM
What do you have to do to get a nice silver tip like that? Thanks Ryan

ryan,

Some of Max's bullets had a "diamond tip" which was made of clear lexan. Same principal as the ballistic tip or vmax plastic inserts used for rapid expansion varmint bullets. Look closer at the pics posted above and you can see thru the lexan tips just like a diamond.

cb <*)))>{

http://photos.imageevent.com/bowhuntermls/fsitems700/icons/GEICO.jpg

rjjahner
02-26-2008, 01:52 PM
Okay I see that they are see thru... But now how does he get such a nice point like that? In which form die or after the fact or how is what I am asking?
And where does he get that clear point stuff to put on the bullets Thanks

vmthtr in Green Bay
02-26-2008, 04:22 PM
Ryan,
I bought some Seirra seconds in 40 Bking. They had some of the green tips loose in the box. They are cast of plastic and look like an arrow tip, the top wedge you see, and then a post that goes down into the hollow point before point forming the bullet. I have no clue where to get them for making your bullets. Check with Blackmon, Calhoon or Corbin for sources?????

Mike

Gary in Illinois
02-26-2008, 05:59 PM
Okay I see that they are see thru... But now how does he get such a nice point like that? In which form die or after the fact or how is what I am asking?
And where does he get that clear point stuff to put on the bullets Thanks

I believe Max had a set-up for moulding the plastic tips he used on his bullets. At least that is what I remember from my conversations with him.

Gary

Skypilotbc
02-26-2008, 11:13 PM
but I don't think he told me where. When I "helped" him make a few for Stephen, one of the steps was to clean-up the hollow-point so the tip would just start in. Then, back into the point-up die--had to use a "feel" for when the tip was seated without crushing it. Labor of Love, for sure. Here's a pick of the Diamond Tip by itself:
http://photos.imageevent.com/skypilotbc/images/websize/Diamond-Tip%20177.JPG

Reports of his passing were a figment of my imagination.
Sorry, Max:)
Bob

rjjahner
02-27-2008, 12:40 AM
I get the Clear Lexan. But is there anybody that you know that makes the ejector for the tips or a die to seat them in the point form die? Thanks

charles in Va.
04-04-2008, 01:54 PM
I have a 20 Tac in an AR15 that seems to love the 39gr.Sierras. Haven't tried them at 300 yds. though. Someone said they are a bit less accurate than at 100yds. Found 10X powder to work ! But, wow, those black hole bullets look awsum ! I truely hope Max is going to get well and continue making them. Just for asking, were they made in 38-40 gr. wt.? And just for S and G, what would it cost to buy those bullet making dies and get started ?

charles in Va.
04-04-2008, 01:59 PM
Whoa ! I just saw the pricing ! Count me out ! But, I'm still interested in the bullets to buy some.

Silverfox
04-04-2008, 08:23 PM
charles--I don't believe Max is going to be making any more bullets. I believe I read on this Board that he had sold his bullet making dies.

charles in Va.
04-05-2008, 01:12 PM
Silverfox, if he did sell them, do you have any info on who got them and if and how we can still get them ? I appreciate your time to answer this ! Charles

Silverfox
04-05-2008, 09:31 PM
charles-- I just did a simple search using the "Search" button up at the top of this Board and typed in "Blackhole bullets" as the search string. I found the following information that was posted by Stephen Grant back on 11-22-2007 :

Mr. Blaine Lewis (208-691-8541 blackholebullets@verizon.net) purchased all of Max Dunlvey's gear and is spinning up production. I have visited with him on several occasions and I can vouch he is sincerely interested in our small caliber needs. I have received my first test lot of 20 cal 35gr diamond tipped w/cupped base. Their appearance and weight tolerances are spot on. I hope to send them downrange this weekend if time permits and report back with results.

Currently he is considering his 17 cal lineup. If you have anything special you would like to see either 17 or 20 cal, I sure he would appreciate your input and requests.

I have a new 17 cal coyote bullet in mind for my MK4 that I’ll dub the “MOAB” if it works as planned.

Sorry about the long hiatus, this civilian work life comes with too many detractions that seem get between me and burning powder. Assisting my fellow AF comrades redecorate Al-Qaeda house via JDAM’s was substantially more fulfilling and predictable.


Hope that helps you out.