Another 17 M4 ?

[AK Wildman]

Whats the max load using H 322 and a berger 25gr MHP.I read a friends sweet 17 and I am sure it was 18.6 gr and even wrote it down in my notes.
I emailed the guy I bought it from and asked him for some load data and col data with the berger 25 gr and he sent me a e mail that said 18.3 was max.

[PatR]

with Nagle 25 grainers and Rem 7 1/2 primer, with Hornady 25's I had to back down to 17.5, as I was piercing primers (cci 400's) at 18.3 grains.

[Larry in VA]

Whats the max load using H 322 and a berger 25gr MHP.I read a friends sweet 17 and I am sure it was 18.6 gr and even wrote it down in my notes.
I emailed the guy I bought it from and asked him for some load data and col data with the berger 25 gr and he sent me a e mail that said 18.3 was max.

If you are referring to Todd Kindlers “The Sensational Seventeen”
(http://www.woodchuckden.com/catalog/page7.pdf) many here on Saubier.com feel that his load data is on the warm side and max loads should be approached with caution. All guns are different! What shoots best in his gun and how much pressure his gun can take before showing pressure signs has little to do with how your gun will handle the same loads. As always start low and work your way up. :D

Hodgdon doesn’t give load data for the 17 MkIV using H322.
I pulled the below data off the Hodgdon web site for the 17 Rem Fire Ball which is almost identical to the 17 MkIV. Again start low and work your way up.

Cartridge:
17 Rem FB ------------ Starting Loads -------------- Maximum Loads
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bullet --- Powder - Grs. - Vel. (ft/s) Pressure ----- Grs. - Vel. (ft/s) Pressure
25 GR. -- H322 --- 17.0 --- 3504 -- 38,500 CUP --- 18.3 --- 3704 -- 48,900 CUP
HDY HP

Oh Yeah, almost forgot, there is an excellent sticky near top of reloding forum that was started by "montdoug" about individual rifles likes and dislikes titled "Rifle to rifle differences in load data a cause for caution". Check it out. :)
http://www.saubier.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1189

[AK Wildman]

Thanks guys I meant sensational 17.I have hand loaded for over 30 years and this is my first wildcat.It is very interesting,Im at work now and will be for a nother two weeks so I still have the die/shell holder isue to figure out when I get back home.

[Larry in VA]

Thanks guys I meant sensational 17.I have hand loaded for over 30 years and this is my first wildcat.It is very interesting,Im at work now and will be for a nother two weeks so I still have the die/shell holder isue to figure out when I get back home.

About that die/shell holder issue in the other post.... I had the same problem with my 1st "Wild Cat" (also the 17MkIV) and I ended up grinding down the shell holder, to fix the problem. If you screw it up your only out the cost of a new shell holder and your not ruining the resale value of an expensive die.

I didn't have the problem you’re having with the seating stem though. Maybe when you get home you can measure the length of the seating stem and post here and we can compare it with ours. That may tell you somethin...

Cheers, Larry

[AK Wildman]

Larry I think I have the shell holder problem resolved.I bought the competition shell holders and just as I thought they do the opposite of what I need them to do so I will be sending them back to Midway.I found in the standard shell holder I could slide a 16 thousands gap gage under the shell and then run it up into the die and it bumps the neck /shoulder down to where its supposed to be on the m4.I Hope this is a one time thing and I wont have to fool with it on fired brass.

[vmthtr in Green Bay]

17MachIV Load Data
Cooper M21 - s/n MTV433 Neck Diameter: 0.199" 25 gr. Berger square lande mark = 2.606 Comp OAL
Trim Length: 1.430" Neck Wall thickness: 0.0135" 25 gr. Berger MEF square lande mark = 2.597 Comp OAL
FL Size Headspace: 1.089" 22 gr. Berger MEF square lande mark = 2.601 Comp OAL
20 gr. Berger MEF square lande mark = 2.610 Comp OAL
20 gr. Hornady V-max square lande mark = x.xxx Comp OAL
H4227 POWDER CHARGE BULLET WEIGHT BULLET PRIMER BRASS VELOCITY COMMENTS
REM 14.9 20 V-max BR4 .221 4,000
Stevespages.com 12.4 20 V-max Rem 7.5 .221
Stevespages.com 13.4 20 V-max Rem 7.5 .221

Stevespages.com 11.8 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .221
Stevespages.com 14.6 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .221
Benchrest.com/sst/mach 15.6 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .221 3,700


H4198 POWDER CHARGE BULLET WEIGHT BULLET PRIMER BRASS VELOCITY COMMENTS
Stevespages.com 14.3 20 V-max Rem 7.5 .221
REM 16.0 20 V-max Rem 7.5 .221
Reloadersnest.com - T. Steger 16.0 20 V-max BR4 .221 Load ID 8851
Stevespages.com 16.7 20 V-max Rem 7.5 .221

Todd Kindler 15.5 25 Berger CCI 400 .221 3,633
Todd Kindler 16.1 25 Berger CCI 400 .221 3,735 Accurate
Stevespages.com 13.6 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .221
Stevespages.com 16.0 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .221
Todd Kindler 16.4 25 Berger CCI 400 .221 3,819 Very accurate - approach carefully
Todd Kindler 16.7 25 Berger CCI 400 .221 3,855 Very accurate - approach carefully
Todd Kindler 17.0 25 Berger CCI 400 .221 3,923 Very Accurate - MAXIMUM

Accuratereloading.com 13.0 30 Berger WSR .221 2,894 Fire Forming Load
Accuratereloading.com 13.5 30 Berger WSR .221 2,968
Accuratereloading.com 13.8 30 Berger WSR .221 3,001
Accuratereloading.com 14.1 30 Berger WSR .221 3,053
Accuratereloading.com 14.4 30 Berger WSR .221 3,178
Accuratereloading.com 14.7 30 Berger WSR .221 3,227
Accuratereloading.com 15.0 30 Berger WSR .221 3,293
Accuratereloading.com 15.0 30 Berger WSR .221 3,322
Accuratereloading.com 3.0 30 Berger WSR .221 3,387
Accuratereloading.com 15.6 30 Berger WSR .221 3,453 Accurate
Accuratereloading.com 15.9 30 Berger WSR .221 3,546


Reloader 7 POWDER CHARGE BULLET WEIGHT BULLET PRIMER BRASS VELOCITY COMMENTS
Stevespages.com 14.2 20 V-max Rem 7.5 .221
Stevespages.com 16.3 20 V-max Rem 7.5 .221

Stevespages.com 12.8 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .221
Stevespages.com 15.7 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .221


Reloader 10X POWDER CHARGE BULLET WEIGHT BULLET PRIMER BRASS VELOCITY COMMENTS
Dan C 17.4 20 V-max Rem 7.5 .223 3,945
Dan C 18.3 20 V-max Rem 7.5 .223 4,140

LHH 17.0 30 Kindler Rem 7.5 221 3,515
LHH 17.3 30 Kindler Rem 7.5 221 3,583


Ramshot X-Term POWDER CHARGE BULLET WEIGHT BULLET PRIMER BRASS VELOCITY COMMENTS
Dan C 19.6 20 V-max Rem 7.5 .223 4,080
Dan C 19.8 20 V-max Rem 7.5 .223 4,110





H322 POWDER CHARGE BULLET WEIGHT BULLET PRIMER BRASS VELOCITY COMMENTS
??? 17.5 20 V-max Fed 205M .221
Chucker 19.5 20 V-max Rem 7.5 .221 4,350 MAX LOAD

Todd Kindler 17.5 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .221 3,667
Todd Kindler 17.8 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .221 3,726
Todd Kindler 18.0 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .221 3,776
Todd Kindler 18.3 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .221 3,825 Very accurate
Todd Kindler 18.6 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .221 3,870 Very accurate


N130 POWDER CHARGE BULLET WEIGHT BULLET PRIMER BRASS VELOCITY COMMENTS
Stevespages.com 14.8 20 V-max Rem 7.5 .221
Stevespages.com 16.9 20 V-max Rem 7.5 .221

Stevespages.com 13.6 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .221
Stevespages.com 16.4 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .221

Accuratereloading.com 14.0 30 Berger WSR .221 2,953
Accuratereloading.com 14.3 30 Berger WSR .221 3,008
Accuratereloading.com 14.6 30 Berger WSR .221 3,083
Accuratereloading.com 14.9 30 Berger WSR .221 3,179
Accuratereloading.com 15.2 30 Berger WSR .221 3,225
Accuratereloading.com 15.5 30 Berger WSR .221 3,266
Accuratereloading.com 15.8 30 Berger WSR .221 3,295
Accuratereloading.com 16.1 30 Berger WSR .221 3,388
Accuratereloading.com 16.4 30 Berger WSR .221 3,468
Accuratereloading.com 16.7 30 Berger WSR .221 3,529
Accuratereloading.com 17.0 30 Berger WSR .221 3,592
Accuratereloading.com 17.3 30 Berger WSR .221 3,655 Accurate
Accuratereloading.com 17.6 30 Berger WSR .221 3,710
Accuratereloading.com 17.9 30 Berger WSR .221 3,778


N133 POWDER CHARGE BULLET WEIGHT BULLET PRIMER BRASS VELOCITY COMMENTS
Montdoug 18.2 20 Berger Rem 7.5 .221 4,080
Phil Maxwell 18.2 20 V-max Fed 205M .223 Warm
Dan C 18.5 20 V-max Rem 7.5 .223 4,040 Use in my Shilen CZ rebarrel, 4110fps with 25" barrel, FB brass
Dan C 19.0 20 V-max Rem 7.5 .223 4,200

Todd Kindler 15.5 25 Berger CCI 400 .221 3,251
Todd Kindler 16.0 25 Berger CCI 400 .221 3,399
Todd Kindler 16.5 25 Berger CCI 400 .221 3,501
Todd Kindler 17.3 25 Berger CCI 400 .221 3,567
Alex 17.5 25 Berger Fed 205M .221 Fireforming load
Alex 17.7 25 Berger Fed 205M .221
Todd Kindler 17.8 25 Berger CCI 400 .221 3,641 Accurate
Alex 17.9 25 Berger Fed 205M .221
Todd Kindler 18.1 25 Berger CCI 400 .221 3,753 Approach carefully - accurate
Todd Kindler 18.3 25 Berger CCI 400 .221 3,842 Approach carefully - accurate
Todd Kindler 18.5 25 Berger CCI 400 .221 3,909 Approach carefully - accurate
17VLD 19.0 25 Starke Fed 205M ? Hot

Accuratereloading.com 15.0 30 Berger WSR .221 2,960 Claims 133 is too slow for Mach IV
Accuratereloading.com 15.5 30 Berger WSR .221 3,059
Accuratereloading.com 16.0 30 Berger WSR .221 3,166
Accuratereloading.com 16.5 30 Berger WSR .221 3,304
Accuratereloading.com 17.0 30 Berger WSR .221 3,336 Accurate
Accuratereloading.com 17.5 30 Berger WSR .221 3,433


BENCHMARK POWDER CHARGE BULLET WEIGHT BULLET PRIMER BRASS VELOCITY COMMENTS
Phil Maxwell 19.3 20 V-max Fed 205M .223 Seat .015 into lands - turn necks to .0135
Dan C 19.2 20 V-max Rem 7.5 .223 4,030 Seat .015 into lands - turn necks to .0135
Dan C 19.5 20 V-max Rem 7.5 .223 4,100 Seat .015 into lands - turn necks to .0135

Lee in OH 16.8 25 Starke CCI 400 .221 3,352 22" TC barrel
Lee in OH 17.1 25 Starke CCI 400 .221 3,413 22" TC barrel
Lee in OH 17.4 25 Starke CCI 400 .221 3,486 22" TC barrel
Lee in OH 17.7 25 Starke CCI 400 .221 3,564 22" TC barrel
Lee in OH 18.0 25 Starke CCI 400 .221 3,539 22" TC barrel
Lee in OH 18.3 25 Starke CCI 400 .221 3,649 22" TC barrel
Dan C / Tom Moore 18.4 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .223 3,760 Turn necks to .0135 - cases hold .3 to .4 less than .221 - seat square into lands
Lee in OH 18.6 25 Starke CCI 400 .221 3,693 22" TC barrel
Lee in OH 18.9 25 Starke CCI 400 .221 3,776 22" TC barrel
Dan C 19.0 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .223 3,750 Turn necks to .0135 - cases hold .3 to .4 less than .221 - seat square into lands
Lee in OH 19.2 25 Starke CCI 400 .221 3,786 22" TC barrel
Dan C 19.2 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .223 3,800 Turn necks to .0135 - cases hold .3 to .4 less than .221 - seat square into lands
Lee in OH 19.5(c) 25 Starke CCI 400 .221 3,874 22" TC barrel - compressed load

BJS - Bryce 18.8 25 Berger CCI BR4 0.221 3,850 Mollied bullet. Hot Load. Start at 18.4 & work your way up to 18.8.

H335 POWDER CHARGE BULLET WEIGHT BULLET PRIMER BRASS VELOCITY COMMENTS
Montdoug 19.7 20 V-max Rem 7.5 .221 3,850 26" barrel - temperature sensitive

Todd Kindler 19.0 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .221 3,808
Stevespages.com 19.0 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .221
Todd Kindler 19.4 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .221 3,875 very accurate
Todd Kindler 19.8 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .221 3,909 very accurate - approach carefully
Stevespages.com 20.0 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .221


AA2015 POWDER CHARGE BULLET WEIGHT BULLET PRIMER BRASS VELOCITY COMMENTS
20

Accurate Arms 16.7 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .223 3,388 Commercial data for .221 brass - beginning charge
Accurate Arms 18.5 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .223 3,650 Commercial data for .221 brass - max.
Benchrest.com/sst/mach 18.5 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .221 3,850



AA2230 POWDER CHARGE BULLET WEIGHT BULLET PRIMER BRASS VELOCITY COMMENTS
20

Accurate Arms 18.3 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .223 3,398 Commercial data for .221 brass - beginning charge
Accurate Arms 20.3 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .223 3,861 Commercial data for .221 brass - max.
Benchrest.com/sst/mach 20.3 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .221 3,850



AA2460 POWDER CHARGE BULLET WEIGHT BULLET PRIMER BRASS VELOCITY COMMENTS
20

Accurate Arms 18.5 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .223 3,417 Commercial data for .221 brass - beginning charge
Accurate Arms 20.5 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .223 3,883 Commercial data for .221 brass - max.




AA2520 POWDER CHARGE BULLET WEIGHT BULLET PRIMER BRASS VELOCITY COMMENTS
20

Accurate Arms 18.5 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .223 3,316 Commercial data for .221 brass - beginning charge
Accurate Arms 20.5 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .223 3,768 Commercial data for .221 brass - max.

[AK Wildman]

Vmthtr that is a lot of info thanks!You guys are always helpful and I might add considerate

[vmthtr in Green Bay]

AK<
I just posted the data, I did not compile it. Someone else on here deserves the credit.

Mike