View Full Version : is there any way of making .224 jackets in to .20 cal ones??
ogre6br
12-25-2006, 03:28 PM
HI
Before I ask the local custom bullet maker to do this I want to find out if its even possible.
Can you re-form .224 jackets to .20 caliber jackets??
local bloke cannot secure any .20 cal jackets to be able to make projectiles with.
H has a heap of jackets that he makes .224 40 grain FBHP projectiles with.
I'm wondering if he can re-form them to .20 caliber and make some FBHP long, long ogive with a large hollow point and strong jackets in a 40-45 weight range .20 calibers to use in 1:10 twist barrels.
is it possible
how is it done, what special tools do you need for this?
ETC ETC
I would like an understanding of whats involved in doing this before I go ahead and ask him to make me some.
I understand early .20 Bergers were made from reformed .224 jackets and were very hard and held together well at high impact velocities- like thos capable from the .20 PPC and .20 BR etc
thanks for any info you can help me with.
later
P
Gary in Illinois
12-25-2006, 04:48 PM
Pat,
I know there are others on the forum with MUCH more experience at this than me but...
Yes you can draw .224 jackets down to .204 using a special jacket drawing die designed for this purpose. The operation is very straight forward - just lube jackets and push through the drawing die. I know both Dave and Richard Corbin have dies specifically for this purpose. I suspect that other suppliers of bullet swaging equipment also have these dies.
In fact, I believe that this is the only way for custom bullet makers to obtain .204 jackets. When ordering some J4 jackets from Berger last week I inquired about buying .204 jackets and was told they did not sell them.
Good luck,
Gary
reed1911
12-28-2006, 06:23 PM
The answer is 100% yes. You can draw them down in a die to .2035 then swage them up to .204 when you add the lead. I'd go with Corbin dies. For the drawing you will be able to use a standard press if you do not have a regular swaging press, but you'll need the swaging press to make the final bullets (adding the lead and forming the point).
RareBear
12-28-2006, 08:15 PM
As I recall, Russ Lucas used .17 caliber jackets to make .14 caliber bullets, same procedure as others have mentioned here.
Bayou City Boy
12-28-2006, 11:05 PM
..if you want to make 20 caliber bullets.
Neither Berger (J-4) or Sierra will sell 20 caliber jackets, but their .224" jackets both work well to draw down for 20 caliber bullets.
I have the draw down die from Dave Corbin and it works very well. Corbin also sells a slightly heavier .224" jacket than the two above, but they are a little pricier than J-4 or Sierra/1K. All three different jackets work well for 20 caiber bullets in the draw down die I have.
-BCB
ogre6br
12-29-2006, 03:02 AM
What lenth/style jackets do I need to get to draw them down so make a 42-47 HPBT with long ogive minimal driving surface projectile.
I wont be doing the work I'll be getting the local cuatom make to do it- but I'll be be supplying thedrawing die and other sies for what I'm after?
thanks
later
P
17VLD
12-29-2006, 03:51 AM
James Calhoon makes 20's now.He is a good man to talk to and he might just sell you some good 20 jackets.
Matt
Tim Anderson
01-01-2007, 01:14 AM
If you need jackets for make 20 cal bullets you might want to try useing 22 L.R. brass, i'm not sure of who offered the dies or any other info. I believe i saw the add in the varmint hunter mag. a few years ago..
Bayou City Boy
01-03-2007, 01:05 PM
If you need jackets for make 20 cal bullets you might want to try useing 22 L.R. brass, i'm not sure of who offered the dies or any other info. I believe i saw the add in the varmint hunter mag. a few years ago..
What you're suggesting, Tim, is how Vernon Speer got started in the bullet making business - making .224" bullets from 22 LR cases. Unfortunately they are not the best bullet jacket material from an accuracy point of view.
On the plus side, there are several very good suppliers of quality .224" jackets that can easily be drawn down for 20 caliber bullets (J-4 and Sierra as examples). Just none that suppy 20 caliber jackets at the present time.
-BCB
ogre6br
01-04-2007, 05:24 AM
Where do I go to actually buy jackets??
How do I find out what types, lengths, types are avail??
I have googles but it hasn't given me any seelers of jackets??
Some links would be great thanks guys
later
p
457ciSBC
01-04-2007, 10:32 AM
Where do I go to actually buy jackets??
How do I find out what types, lengths, types are avail??
I have googles but it hasn't given me any seelers of jackets??
Some links would be great thanks guys
later
p
J4
Mike
http://www.bergerbullets.com/jackets.htm
Gary in Illinois
01-04-2007, 10:47 AM
Pat,
I can't properly answer your question but since no one else has responded, I can provide some related information. I have made .204 bullets in the VLD point style with a FLAT base in weights ranging from 38 grains to 47 grains using jackets drawn from .224 jackets.
I used .224 jackets that were .640" long as received and were .698" long after drawing to .204 diameter. While changing the core size will let you vary the finished weight within certain limits, in my experience the weight range mentioned above is approximately the weight range available with this jacket - the jacket is nearly full of lead to the tip at approximately 47 grains.
The weight range that is practical with a given jacket length will vary depending on the point style (and probably the maker of the die). It will also be affected by the base style. Not having made any boat tail bullets, I cannot estimate what effect this will have on the finished bullet weight and / or the jacket length required to obtain your desired finished weight. For these reasons, I cannot tell you what jacket length to buy.
The only place I have purchased jackets is from Berger / J4. Following is a link to their jacket listing: http://www.bergerbullets.com/jackets.htm . I am not sure that this listing is current; when I called to order bullet jackets I was told that one of the jacket lengths listed on this site had been discontinued. I am not sure if it was one of the .172 or .224 jackets however. Sierra's web site shows no stock on bullet jackets; http://www.sierrabullets.com/index.cfm?section=store&page=purchase_bullet_jackets
For whatever it is worth (probably very little!), if I were ordering jackets for the bullet you mentioned, I would probably order .224 jackets in the .705" or the .740" length. If your bullet maker has a jacket trimming die in either .224 or .204 diameter you can always buy the jackets on the long side and have him trim them to the needed length either before (if using the .224 trimmer) or after (if using the .204 trimmer) drawing the jackets.
I know this doesn't answer your question but perhaps the above information will be of some help.
Good luck,
Gary
Bayou City Boy
01-04-2007, 03:41 PM
With a bullet jacket longer than needed/wanted for the finished bullet, and a jacket trimmer, you can make any weight/length bullet you want to make that will probably shoot well through the barrel twist you're working with if the end result/bullet is not too long.
If you make it too, long, the proof will be in the pudding when you try to make it shoot good........and it won't..
-BCB
Pappy
01-08-2007, 08:02 PM
In case you haven't looked lately, the Berger website is now much improved:
www.bergerbullets.com
Pappy
03-02-2007, 08:01 PM
4275 N. Palm St.
Fullerton, CA 92835
714-447-5456
Bayou City Boy
03-03-2007, 03:16 AM
I bought some Sierra .224" jackets about a month ago. They didn't show to be in stock on their web site, but they had them in stock when I called.
Try a call to one of their Tech Specialists, and they will connect you with the "jacket lady"..... I especially like the Sierra jackets for making 20 caliber PD bullets.
-BCB
ogre6br
03-12-2007, 01:28 AM
Gary- thanks heaps - its been a while since I checked this post and I must have missed you excellent reply.
My bullet maker is so busy making established BR and other Comp projectiles ATM.
That he's putting all "special" orders on the back burner.
Will need to give a set of forming dies to a Tool maker who i used to work with to see what he can do about replicating them but in .204 cal and .172 as with the new fireball coming out there is intrest in that over this side of the pond.
So things are moving but not quite as fast as I wanted.
I'll email him a copy of your post and see if he has a trimmer.
Thanks again
later
p
georgeld
03-15-2007, 04:49 AM
Do a search for Corbins too.
They're the originators as I understand it. They also sell the .22LR jacket
forming dies. but, their price's will scare you.
Might be you can get the design and pass it along to your local machinist and he can make them for you.
Wish you the best, let us know what you come up with and how it works out.
ogre6br
If you are having problems getting jackets and your bullet maker is telling you that you are on the back burner give me a call. Maybe I can help you get your jackets without buying any equipment.
Drew
(231) 229 4529
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