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Alycidon
01-25-2010, 01:00 PM
Its that time of year, the end of the UK pheasant season. Thats when 'newgunitus' grips me bad, if I dont have a project in the pipeline then I get the urge to get one going.

My existing rifle armoury is a 6mmPPC, a 20BR and 2 x custom 10/22s.

The 20BR project started as a lightweight project but finished being built as a 14lb long range hammer. It has a barrel so long that use from a truck cab is not easy and with a moderator (silencer) attached would be almost impossable.

So this time I am thinking of a 16-17 inch barrel threaded to take a moderator giving a moderated barrel of 22-24 inches. As I dont use them much these days it will be easier with the authorities here if I sell one of the semis and slot something in between the remaining semi (an AMT) and the BR.

Rifle will be used as a short/medium range pest controller for things up to and including fox at 250 yards. This time it will be light, short and handy.

Caliber wise I think the 17 Fireball will tick most of the boxes, even with such a short barrel I should get 3200 fps out of it dont you think?.

20 Vartarg may be better as it has higher retained energy ( I think !!) but the authorities may give me ear ache on another 20 cal. I could probably get it on the weight issue but UK firearms officers are trying to reduce guns in public hands so they fight everything usually.

17AH, poor case design and life and velocity wont be much above 2500 with a 16 incher on it. A mate with one over here on a newish CZ527 action is having bad issues with neck splits.

Rebarrelling the PPC is not really an option, it would need to come down to 17 but is then way overbore. I am only halfway through the barrel life on it anyway.

Action wise I am thinking of rebarreling a shot out cheapy, there is a nice BSA I have seen and quite a few CZ527s. Trigger is awfull on the 527 though or has been on the 3 or 4 factory ones I have used.Any thoughts, especially on the velocity loss per inch in a 17, on a 20 it is about 30fps per inch so I suppose a 17 wont be much different.

Any thoughts, especially on the velocity loss per inch in a 17, on a 20 it is about 30fps per inch so I suppose a 17 wont be much different. Todd Kindler advises 3800 or so on a 24 incher so that means maybe 3400 for a 16 incher, I know his loads are hot so drop another 200 and thats where I get to 3200.



A

trotterlg
01-25-2010, 02:54 PM
This guy has a 19 inch barrel, 20gr bullets go out at 3,700fps or a little more, fairly light weight, and it shoots well. Larry

http://www.22-250.com/17FB.jpg

Alycidon
01-25-2010, 03:37 PM
This guy has a 19 inch barrel, 20gr bullets go out at 3,700fps or a little more, fairly light weight, and it shoots well. Larry

http://www.22-250.com/17FB.jpg

What is it a 17Fireball/Mach 4 I assume.

Looks similar to the Harrington and Richardson single 12 gauge I shot my first rabbits with 45 years ago, still remember the recoil !!.

Thanks

A

trotterlg
01-25-2010, 08:09 PM
It is an H&R with a 17 Rem FB barrel made up from the 12 gauge barrel.

Larry

nvreloader
01-26-2010, 03:29 AM
17AH, poor case design and life and velocity wont be much above 2500 with a 16 incher on it. A mate with one over here on a newish CZ527 action is having bad issues with neck splits.
Any thoughts, especially on the velocity loss per inch in a 17, on a 20 it is
A

Alycidon
I just run the 17 AH with a 16" bbl and have several loads with the most common powders that are 3100-3200 fps w/20 bullet per QL. The 17AH will hold it's own when fed the proper diet. Your friend needs to anneal the cases it sounds like, will stop the split necks and be better all the way around. Hope this helps.
Tia,
Don

varminter
01-26-2010, 07:04 AM
Alycidon,

Whether you decide to go 17 FB or Mach IV or even 20 Vartag why not go with an over barrel moddy and maximise your velocity and try and locate a sporter weight barrel and light stock and make your weight saving there? At most with a 20" barrel you would only be adding a further 4". This way those little 17 pills would be pushing at least 3400fps. :D easily good for upto 250yds and then some!

Personally Id opt for one the 17's and dont look back!:cool:

kenbro
01-26-2010, 12:22 PM
Hello Geof; I have a rem 7 in 17fb with the skinny 20" barrel. It measures 22 1/2" with a t4 ar on the end, it's very end heavy and not very good looking. I will shoot it over the chrony tomorrow to see what fps it achieves. Have you considered one of the 19 cals? Regards, Ken.

casts_by_fly
01-26-2010, 12:24 PM
Al,

What part of the country are you in again? I have an encore 17 AH barrel. It is right at 20" and threaded. It will push 20's 3400+ or more. For a truck run, it is super sweet. The reason is that there is no receiver length to add to the total length. Even a short receiver adds 4" to the overall length of the gun. With the encore, you can get that back in a barrel.

With a wood stock I think the gun is in the 6-7# neighborhood and super pointable because it is so short. I put a SAK on the front and the length and weight are just fine.

I'm in East Yorks, so if you're anywhere around this way you're welcome to have a go with it.

If you're looking for a repeater then I would pick up a CZ 527 in 221FB and swap the barrel to 17 FB. The one I just gave my dad has a great trigger (it was worked by a smith). Very smooth gun and you can get them relatively inexpensively.

Thanks,
Rick

trotterlg
01-27-2010, 03:59 AM
You could do one like this, it is in .22 Hornet, but could be 17 Hornet as easy, it weighs less than 4 1/2 pounds like you see it, will be at 4.5 with a sling. This is a Rossi converison. Larry

http://www.22-250.com/ulcr_4.jpg

terrier man
01-27-2010, 09:44 PM
ALYCIDON.i am just waiting for delivery of a .17fb cooper from Brian fox this will be my 2nd 17fb had a savage before but the gun was too heavy but it shot like a dream.
the fb is fox "friendly "with 25vmaxs out to 200yds and that is with still a fair bit of horse power left.i had a lot of fun with the savage shooting rabbits out to 250 yds you can stretch it more but the wind will play games with your bullets. i did learn a lot from the gun and had to work a bit harder to get hits .cleaning was nearly non existant no copper even after 40 rounds down the tube.
all in all a very nice calibre to shoot.cant wait for the newbie to land.

6BRBB
01-28-2010, 03:43 AM
Hi again A
I’m currently having a 17 inch barrel put on my Rem700 Ti. But unfortunately not a small caliber this time; it will be in 260AckImp for; a. NZ bush hunting (goats/deer), b.fire-forming 260AI brass for my tactical rig. Am re-using an old turned-down 6.5-284 F-Class barrel. It at least should be quite light and handy. Will have an electronic sight (EOtech); again to keep the weight down. Recoil should be fun; but will probably put a suppressor on it for the fire forming; and maybe some short range open field work. Maybe will try a Greystone supressor as I have seen one of these and it looks amazing, and very light too.

http://greystoneguns.co.nz/silencers/

One day when I get sick of this as a 6.5mm, maybe it will also become a short barrel 20 or 17 of some type.

Good luck with your project.

GH

kenbro
01-28-2010, 05:23 PM
Geoff, i said i would post velocities for my 20" fireball. Rained all day wednesday. Went up the field today and my chrony didn't register the shots. Will go again Friday with a different rifle,to make sure chrony is working and not just missing the small bullets,but i don't see why it would. Regards,Ken.

Alycidon
01-30-2010, 11:16 AM
I am tempted by Cooper ( & Dakota Predator!!) but you are looking at the thick end of £2k by the time you have a half decent bit of timber under them. I suppose the Cooper Pheonix sythentic is OK, I have shot one in 6BR and it went OK but I have read things about soft bedding and oval chambers, not good. Sending it back to the US for rectificiation would mean loosing it for maybe 6 or 8 months.

A shot out CZ or BSA maybe £250, add a barrel and a lightweight McM, sort the trigger and you are good to go for 1K maybe. I was going to go overbarrel on the mod anyway, one of those US Titanuim ones once George gets some built as overbarrells.

19 calibers, I am sure thet would be fine but bullet choice is bad enough in 20cal. (about time we had a 50 grain Vmax or SBK or NBT, hint, hint)
When I posted on 19s on a UK site some while ago no one was running one so who is going to go through the aggro of ordering in 1000 bullets for one.

Interesting anyway,

A

kenbro
01-30-2010, 01:07 PM
Hello Geoff, Been out with chrony this morning.Best i could get with 5 shots out of 20" rem factory barrel that has 350 plus rounds through it was 3584fps. Thats with 20g factory ammo.I'm surprised it's so slow. I took the bolt cutters with me, thinking i would cut 2" off, now i don't think i'll bother. In Sporting Rifle April '09 they tested a 17fb at 3875 out of a 26" barrel. Very dissapointing.PS. Will try to shoot over someone elses chrony just to be sure, as mine didn't give any readings a few days ago. Regards,Ken.

Alycidon
01-30-2010, 10:04 PM
thanks for your replies so far guys, keep them coming,

Kenbro,

3600 from a 20 inch barrel is perfectly acceptable, that other 6 inches of barrel should generate another 180fps or so, therefore you are not far behind that Sporting Rifle test, who wrote it?, Bruce Potts I assume. You could easily see that difference between two identical factory rifles, such is the nature of rifles and reloading.

Thing is velocity is not the bee all and end all as you well know, accuracy is what we need and that usually is some way below fastest speed. My 20BR goes best accuarcy wise at 3300-3500 with Berger 50s.

I was looking for a short barrel for ease of use in a vechicle cab, crows and magpies are likely to feature heavily in its diet. My rimmys are 12 and 14 inch barrels and when moderated are easy to handle. Weight, a McM ultralight stock would save a fair bit and a small Ziess 3x9x36 scope is only 20oz or so.

casts-by-fly,

I am in Northants I am afraid so a fair way away but thanks for the offer. I know either the 17FB or the 20 Vartarg will do what I want perfectly.

A

kenbro
01-31-2010, 04:09 PM
Geoff,It was Pete Moore that wrote the article,but,Bruce Potts did a similar test around the same time for a different magazine. His results were quite a bit higher,velocity wise, than Pete Moore published. I took the 14 out today, just fired a few rounds to help break the barrel in. Fps averaged 3252 with 11grs and 11.2grs of 4198 with a 17.5 g naked bullet. No recoil and very low noise even without a mod on. I'm hoping it will make a 200yd. magpie/crow or rabbit rifle. Regards, Ken.

Alycidon
01-31-2010, 08:16 PM
Whats a 14 or is that a finger error, I know some of these boys here talk us innocent English guys into some exotic stuff but if you have a 14.221 or a 14 Hornet then its probably a Uk first. Very light powder load so maybe a 17AH Hornet ?. Can you imagine the pain in getting hold of 14 cal bullets over here !!

Never seen Pete Moore critise anything much, he has to much of an eye on advertising revenue. I tend not to read any mag he writes in these days unless there is something of specific interest.

A

Alycidon
06-26-2010, 09:21 PM
Ken,

Seems the 14.221 project has come to an end as the rifle is now for sale.

Could you advise the members of your final findings and thoughts on the caliber, thanks.

What are you building next ?.

A

sicero
06-27-2010, 12:19 PM
After changing the main spring, the factory trigger on a 527 is the best and easiest I have ever seen. You can take the whole thing out in your hand to work on it, so you can see what you are doing. I agree, the regular trigger from the factory is horrid. The replacement spring is in your local valve core. Don't run your fliver with a flat tire. lol Kenny

Bighornbob
07-18-2010, 05:20 PM
My first $35 shotgun. JR Topper 20 ga. I read Alycidon's post I remember the recoil in a 20ga. I learned to shoot with my eyes shut!!:(


Bob