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trotterlg
06-11-2008, 01:30 AM
A couple of pictures of the conversion to 22 Hornet. I used a CZ takeoff barrel and Calhoon's drawings, I have fired it and it didn't blow up. I am building another bolt head due to a machining error I made, but it is fairly easy to do. I added another hold down bolt to the action and cut a slot for a recoil lug/bolt. The receiver is parkerized due to some slight pitting, the barrel is blue. Larry

http://22-250.com/582_1.jpg

http://22-250.com/582_2.jpg

nvreloader
06-11-2008, 04:42 AM
Trotterlg,

What kind of extractor did you use, A good close up of the extactors would be greatly appreciated, I have been using the the band type (Savage/Stevens/Marlin type, 22 mag) with the two arms/legs, I remove the left leg and then mill the right leg slot too JUST accept the 5.7 case head lip.

On the 1st original attempt I did the sako type extractor but did not like the deep cuts etc. I want as much of the metal left as possible, after having several case heads blow the primer pockets :eek: etc. (my fault):rolleyes:

I have been trying to find the 581-582 extractors, but they seem to be kinda scare in my part of the world. (I am not going to pay $120 for a 581 complete bolt, just to see what the extractors look like)....

I have 1 savage extractor with a single arm that is for the 22 Hornet case, but I don't know which model it fits. Waiting for the Gun Parts order to arrive, I bought one of each type extractors etc.
TIA, Don.

georgeld
06-11-2008, 05:09 AM
Hey Don:
How about some pictures of your work?
Sure would be nice to see after hearing so much about what you do.

trotterlg
06-11-2008, 05:25 AM
First extractor I tried was one using a T slot like a Savage uses. I had difficulties with it, so for the new bolt head I think I will use a modified claw type from a 10-22. The small bolt head limits the options, this will be the third bolt head I have made, the extractor was the problem on all the rejects. Larry

22_boomer
06-11-2008, 09:37 AM
Does anybody know what the pressure limits are on the 582 type action? I hope this thread stays active for a good long time!:D

NFG
06-11-2008, 06:07 PM
Yeah...ME TOO. What started out as just a "thought experiment" of little passing interest a few days ago has me by the short and curlys now. I HATE when tha happens....I don't want another project niggling at me in the back of my mind and keeping me awake instead of napping in the afternoon when I can't find a donor rifle...:eek: :rolleyes: :D


Larry...someone mentioned a dovetail slot recoil lug/barrel lock...did I get that right??? Could a thicker lock be used with a hole drilled for the front receiver screw, or do you have some pictures of the barrel and receiver prior to putting them together? Pins and dovetail lock might be extra un-needed work maybe.


Would something like a Marlin 336 extractor work???

Thanks...nice work.

'Njoy

trotterlg
06-11-2008, 11:31 PM
Threading the receiver and barrel is dead easy, a little work to get the extractor cutout in the right clocking to work, but not hard at all. I mounted the barrel and then built the bolt head to the proper length for head space, kind of backwards, but it works when things are a total custom. See the drawings/picture below, this is how I am doing it, there are probably a thousand other ways. The extractor is a problem, at no time can it extend past the diameter of the bolt, even when snapping over the rim of the cartridge, so this limits the type and shape that will work. This is because the bolt head rotates inside of the action which is the same diameter as the bolt head. The action has 6 locking lugs to the rear of the new bolt head. Hope the picture helps. Larry

http://22-250.com/drawing.jpg

nvreloader
06-12-2008, 05:49 AM
Trotterlg,
Great pictures, I did almost the same thing on the action as you, except I made/turned a Rem styled recoil lug for between the action/Bbl. I made a single shot follower from Hardwood with leaf spring for testing etc. Worked so good I have never changed anything yet. Throw a loaded rd into the hole a close the bolt. :rolleyes:

I made the ext so it would extrude a slight amount of side pressure on the case head and then installed a plunger pin & spring, when the fired case is extracted, the plunger throws the case out of the action. (I cut several coils off to reduce losing the cases in the Pucker Brush etc.)

I counter bored the bolt head .130" deep, then set the extractor depth and tension etc, plus ejector plunger etc. I have the extractor and plunger all BELOW the bolt face end and chambered the case to leave .135" sticking out the end of the Bbl. Not much room in this small sized bolt face.:eek:

Rogervich (Paul) welded a magazine spacer/latch stud on an SS AMT 30 Carb mag and I made an aluminum holder to fit the mag and bottom of the 591 action.
I am attempting to get the RIGHT Timing of the mag lips (for releasing the case) when picked up by the bolt etc and having the case start sliding into the chamber end, etc.

Very touchey on the amount of jump and tension of mag lips and the correct angle of feed etc.:eek: Still working out the bugs, when finished I should have 25-30 rd mag that does the job. :D

NFG,
I tried the 336 Marlin ext, due to the dia of the spring legs, I could not get this ext to work, the one ext that will work is the one for the 22 Hornet case, looks just like the 336 ext only smaller in dia on the spring legs and shorter on the ext length. (I don't know or and havn't find the model number YET of this ext.)

George,
I have lots of pictures, Kids bought me a new little camera (Olympus FE 110)that takes pictures that are stored on a little disc thing (hold 300+ pictures), I cannot figure out HOW to get the pictures from the disc thing to this plastic box.
As soom as I can figure this out I'll post pictures of my 17 Kit Fox and it's building etc. I have another 591 action I am doing only in 22 Kit Fox, and a 592 waiting for it's time, it will become a standard 5.7x28 case.

22-Boomer,
I have a friend that worked in the development of the 581/591 actions when he worked for Rem, per info received for him, these actions were proofed at 55-60,000LBS. These are the same actions, just stamped 581 or 591 series. I have been attempting to find a 581 series action to compare against each other etc.
Don.

22_boomer
06-12-2008, 09:31 AM
Trotterlg,
22-Boomer,
I have a friend that worked in the development of the 581/591 actions when he worked for Rem, per info received for him, these actions were proofed at 55-60,000LBS. These are the same actions, just stamped 581 or 591 series. I have been attempting to find a 581 series action to compare against each other etc.
Don.

Don,
Would it be safe to say that the actions are good for around 45,000 psi on a regular diet if they were proofed at 55-60,000 psi?

nvreloader
06-13-2008, 04:19 AM
22 Boomer,

I really can't answer that question at this time, I have remade a 591 into my 17 Kit Fox case, (about the same as the 17 VR of Foxhunter's), I do know that the average chamber pressure of the 5.7x28 mm case is at 50,000 psi, and therefore the 17 KF should be operating at around this range also (SWAG).

I have been paying VERY close attention to the headspace/bolt set back of this action, I have been checking loads that will destroy the case head on the first shot :eek: (everything is done in a VERY SAFE/secure manner).

In checking this action out, SO FAR, I have not found ANY measureable results (HOT LOADS pressure over 65,000+psi), to make me the slightist bit gun shy of continuing using SAFE and Sane reloads in the 17 KF case. Most of my loads run around 40-45,000 psi, per QL.

I am curious if Rogervich has any input into these actions, as he has more trigger time behind one than me, and from his back ground and training and Paul made the original 17 x 5.7 case into his 17 caliber on one of these actions. I loaned Paul my 17KF reamer and he changed the live pilot to 20cal and rechambered his 591 action into the 5mm Shirke? if I remember right.

On my case design, I have a STRAIGHT CASE and 35* shoulder, I do not get the case setback as a normal case that has some taper in the case length, and I am not sure if this case design helps or hurts bolt setback/headspace questions/problems?

I have just over 500+ rds down the tube at this time, and will continue to very closely watch this action for any problems that may show up. The second action (591) is being chambered into a 22 KF case and the 592 action will be chambered into the standard 5.7x28mm case. As these action come into play I should be able to give more info at that time.

I am having a hard time moving around on doing much since my fall in Jan, which caused the rt leg/arm to be about half pearlized from nerve damage, along with the building the 40x40 garage, things are behind and running slowly at this time. As things improve I'll let you and the rest of the gang know.
Don.

Hippy
07-27-2009, 06:21 PM
strength of the action. A few years back there was a 581/580 that floated around the intenet for sale that was a 221 Fireball with a 8' twist bbl. I don't know if this would work BUT it must have once
Thanx,
Jim:)

Rodgervich
07-28-2009, 04:15 AM
I did a stress analysis with my CAD program a few years ago, I would have to dig around and see if I saved it. Might need to do it again when I get my software upgraded (hopefully soon). I have not shot my 590 in a long time but it sure is a hoot.
Personally I wouldn't chamber it with a .221 case, not due to bolt lug strength but more the thin walls of the barrel remaining over the chamber. It would probably withstand mild loads but it's not worth the risk TO ME. They are nice light little rifles and much more fun with small caliber high velocity cartridges.

I have built two CF conversions and used the Tubb Extractor from Brownells, normally for installation in Rem 700's. Instructions are included and they result in a good strong extractor. Need to grind down the "stub" a little to clear the firing pin if you go by the Calhoon instructions/dimensions.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v216/RMEngineering/591%20conversion/extr_installed.jpg

If you can get the original 5mm Magnum barrels you can add a threaded tenon stub to the barrel and rechamber the barrel. They are GOOD barrels and mine has been VERY accurate.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v216/RMEngineering/591%20conversion/tenon-2prts.jpg

Search this forum for "5mm Shrike" or "shrike" and you should find some of my old info.
The whole project was documented on www.homegunsmith.com if you want to try to search that as well.
L->R 5mm Shrike #1, 5mm Shrike #2 (more capacity), 5.7x28 original case.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v216/RMEngineering/shrike2.jpg