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17varminter
04-12-2009, 03:54 AM
From reading CCI's web site: they should be used just like CCI 400 primers, correct? I have an opportunity to buy 4x1,000 boxes.

From web site: "Use the same data as CCI Standard (non-Magnum)
primers"

http://www.cci-ammunition.com/products/primers/primers_prod.aspx?id=27

Larry in VA
04-12-2009, 04:57 AM
They are just like the CCI400 primers only more consistent ignition from primer to primer.
Larry

king canis
04-13-2009, 12:47 AM
they are slightly thicker. you get the benefit of higher pressure handling capabilities over the 400's.

trotterlg
04-13-2009, 01:08 AM
In my 17 Remington and 17 FB I cannot tell the difference between the BR4's and the 450's, either one shoots to the same POI in both cartridges. I have always tried to get the BR4's but the 450's act the same for me. Larry

Oleman
04-13-2009, 02:39 AM
In my 17 Remington and 17 FB I cannot tell the difference between the BR4's and the 450's, either one shoots to the same POI in both cartridges. I have always tried to get the BR4's but the 450's act the same for me. Larry

The BR4's and the 450 use the same cups.

It's been over a month since all the big suppliers have ran out. I'm beginning to just wonder a little. I'm smelling government or BS in the air..........:cool::eek:

17varminter
04-13-2009, 01:19 PM
From what I was told by CCI, the BR are the equivalent to the 400, the 450 are mags. It is a little confusing.

Stephen Perry
04-06-2011, 04:06 AM
Winchester small rifle primers are so good that their standard primer WSR is also their magnum and benchrest primer all in one unit. I bought 14,000 WSR primers 5 years ago. I shoot them mainly in my 22 and 6 PPC benchrest rifles. I also use WSR primers in my .222 and .223 rifles. In my 6x47 Lapua I use WSR primers exclusively. I have Fed 205, Fed 205M, Rem 7 1/2, and some CCI. I have no favorites in primers, they all work with loads that don't push the envelope of going past a node and showing extreme pressure signs. I back off my load and find another node to not be in that extreme pressure. This node and extreme pressure stuff I'm talking about here goes back a hundred years or more before WW 1 in the time of Pope and Mann. We are not genius level they were.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR

Ackman
04-06-2011, 05:18 AM
From reading CCI's web site: they should be used just like CCI 400 primers, correct? I have an opportunity to buy 4x1,000 boxes.

From web site: "Use the same data as CCI Standard (non-Magnum)
primers"

http://www.cci-ammunition.com/products/primers/primers_prod.aspx?id=27

It's a good primer, get them. I use the BR4 and Rem7-1/2BR interchangeably...they're both magnum primers. The Win SR primer has a thinner cup. Not for high pressure rounds, it isn't and never has been considered a magnum primer.

Stephen Perry
04-06-2011, 12:12 PM
The .220 Swift is in the magnum pressure range with some loads in the 53,000 psi range. Not hypo insano pressures of 60,000 psi but at velocities over 4000 fps I would say the Swift is a magnum. Reloading manuals of different makes use Remington 9 1/2M and WLR primers both for Swift loads. The WSR is the same cup design as the WLR primer suggested for 220 Swift loads. PPC loads approach 55,000 psi and WSR primers work just fine, been there do that.

Magnum is a state of mind with some rifleman. Not much to do with riflemen attempting to get productive loads that harvest game and group well on target. Not sure what my 6x47 Lapua with a healthy load of 4350 is on the numbers scale of psi and fps don't care. But I know what it does on 600M targets, they fall down fast. I use WSR primers with my Lapua loads. At 600M I am flattening prarie dog size silohuettes 10 in a row in swirling winds that would challenge most riflemen. Proof of a cartridge designated magnum or not is in the field not on the chronograph. I do feel those with chronographs you have a good tool for load development but not the only tool.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR

turbineman
04-06-2011, 02:09 PM
I believe the 400's and the br-4's are the same mixture, but the 450's are hotter ( different anyway ) I shoot the 450's in my 6br 1-8 tw with the 105's. have had good luck with all of them, problem is they are getting real expensive! and harder to find.

Chuck Miller
04-06-2011, 03:24 PM
I've always been told, not sure by whom, that the BR4 and 400 were basically the same with the BR's series being more uniform. Personally I don't see any difference in performance in shooting them side by side. I did just get a promo offer from Midsouth where they are waiving the hazmat charge on purchases of 5 or more boxes(1000) and from what I can tell they have all primers in stock.

ackleyman
04-06-2011, 05:03 PM
Winchester small rifle primers are so good that their standard primer WSR is also their magnum and benchrest primer all in one unit. I bought 14,000 WSR primers 5 years ago. I shoot them mainly in my 22 and 6 PPC benchrest rifles. I also use WSR primers in my .222 and .223 rifles. In my 6x47 Lapua I use WSR primers exclusively. I have Fed 205, Fed 205M, Rem 7 1/2, and some CCI. I have no favorites in primers, they all work with loads that don't push the envelope of going past a node and showing extreme pressure signs. I back off my load and find another node to not be in that extreme pressure. This node and extreme pressure stuff I'm talking about here goes back a hundred years or more before WW 1 in the time of Pope and Mann. We are not genius level they were.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR


Winchester primers have thin cups....don't forget this issue for any 17!

CCI BR-4's have the ignition characteristics of the 400 primer and the cup thickness of the 450.

Ackman
04-06-2011, 05:08 PM
The .220 Swift is in the magnum pressure range with some loads in the 53,000 psi range. Not hypo insano pressures of 60,000 psi but at velocities over 4000 fps I would say the Swift is a magnum. Reloading manuals of different makes use Remington 9 1/2M and WLR primers both for Swift loads. The WSR is the same cup design as the WLR primer suggested suggested for 220 Swift loads. PPC loads approach 55,000 psi and WSR primers work just fine, been there do that.



Stephen Perry
Angeles BR

More of your blather. You shoot WSR primer in a Swift do you? So why even talk about it? What's the swift got to do with anything. A WSR has the same "cup design" as the WLR? Wtf you talking about?.....it's a cup. Why go on and on about this on a post asking about the BR4? Are you drunk? On meds?

Stephen Perry
04-07-2011, 03:15 AM
All the above primers handle over 50,000 psi loads which are used in short range benchrest shoots for 2 aggs a day, most benchrest group shoots are 50 record shots a day plus sighters, when shooting UNL/HVY where UNL is 10 shot the total moves up to 75 record shots a day plus sighters. I have seen all the primers used in benchrest blow from time to time, usually the environmental condtions have more to do wth primer piercing than the load used.

I will find the the primer comparison articles that I can in Rifle and Handloader magazines. Some might have trouble believing articles by Professionals like Carmichael, Waters, and Sundra if they are the primer authors I find but some also call green/blue and vice versa. We all have choices in reloading components why spear a guy for what they might know and are willing to share. The far majority of the Small Caliber posters here are proper and knowlegable but not all.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR

GrdhgKiller
04-07-2011, 04:26 PM
If you shoot our small caliber high pressure seventeens you would be advise to use the thicker cup primers. Here is a good article form James Calhoon who has the real world experience in this area.
http://www.jamescalhoon.com/

csterner
04-07-2011, 05:10 PM
good article about primers and pressure.. go to this site, click on "informative articles" on the left sidebar and then scroll down to where you see the article "Primers and Pressure"

http://www.jamescalhoon.com/

Buy the BR4's...you won't be unhappy you did.

mauritz45
04-07-2011, 05:58 PM
i understand they have a thicker cup are a little hotter? how do these fit into the debate? anyone use these?--cam

Stephen Perry
04-08-2011, 02:29 AM
I read the Calhoon primer article, good stuff. He included most of the primers we have been talking about. Calhoon's material on primer cup design is what most should know. I like the way he broke primers up into 40,000 and 50,000 psi numbers, good call. Add to Calhoon's info the enviormental effect on load development and you can see why I carry WSR, Rem 7 1/2, and Fed 205 primers to a benchrest shoot. For field shooting it wouldn't hurt to load with 2 different primers and go from there in selecting your primary primer.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR

csterner
04-08-2011, 12:53 PM
i understand they have a thicker cup are a little hotter? how do these fit into the debate? anyone use these?--cam

as far as I know, the 41's are CCI's mil-spec primer. They have a hard cup, for AR type rifles, but as for actual hardness, I couldn't give you any numbers. Have no idea how "hot" they are either. I bought 1000 to use in my AR's a year or so ago and have had no issues with them. I would assume they are similar to the BR4's and/or 450's.

Ackman
04-08-2011, 04:05 PM
Add......the enviormental effect on load development and you can see why I carry WSR, Rem 7 1/2, and Fed 205 primers to a benchrest shoot.
Stephen Perry
Angeles BR

Tell us about this "environmental effect" with primers.

Ackman
04-08-2011, 04:12 PM
Add......the enviormental effect on load development and you can see why I carry WSR, Rem 7 1/2, and Fed 205 primers to a benchrest shoot.
Stephen Perry
Angeles BR

Tell us about this "environmental effect" with primers.

GrdhgKiller
04-08-2011, 06:27 PM
Another aspect of primer specs. Charlie touched upon is the hardness of the primer cup. In doing my research for my 22BR build and the the parent 6mmBR case over on 6mmBR website they had some suggestions about primers. The touched upon cup hardness of the CCI BR 4's and CCI 450's vs the Fed 205's. and hotter load use. I had found in my use that some loads that pierced primers with the Federals did not with the CCI BR 4's. The article http://www.6mmbr.com/6mmbr.html

The statement: Primer Selection
CCI BR4s and 450s are giving the best velocities, with lowest ES, for the 100+gr bullets. For the shorter bullets, the Fed 205s work well. Federal 205s give good accuracy, but they don't handle high pressures as well as the CCIs, which have a harder cup. Stick to CCIs for hot loads.