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  #61  
Old 02-28-2017, 05:32 PM
ramos ramos is offline
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Prose,
I sent you the list of steps I go through awhile back. Can a guy eliminate some of those steps? Certainly. When I first started making VT cases, I would start with 110 pieces and hope to finish with 100. Eventually, I reduced that to 105, then I got it down to 101. Now I feel comfortable starting with 100 pieces, knowing I will finish with the same number of cases. This was accomplished by making smaller changes with each pass (more steps) and figuring out exactly how much lube was needed. This approach also resulted in less work hardening and less case run-out. You gotta ease that brass into its' new form. My brass goes through the dies four times before trimming to length and thickness. Then it is annealed and goes through the die one more time before being loaded. To do it in one or two passes? All I see down that road is frustration and disappointment. And, sub-par VT cases.
Respectfully,
Jon
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  #62  
Old 02-28-2017, 06:00 PM
Bill K Bill K is offline
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Default 223 to 20 VT

Ramos, when I mention doing it in two passes, I am only referring to doing so with 221 FB brass and stepping down to 20 cal on the neck.
Now when I/we do 221fb or 20vt from 223 cases, then it is done in several steps, so we get very few crushed cases, along the lines that you and others do when working with 223/5.56/Lc/etc. Bill K
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  #63  
Old 02-28-2017, 07:09 PM
ramos ramos is offline
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I agree, Bill. Two different processes depending on if you start with FB or .223/5.56 cases. I should have been more clear on that. One advantage of starting with .223/5.56 is that you can leave the brass as long as you want. The difference is important to some and not at all to others.
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  #64  
Old 02-28-2017, 08:16 PM
Prose Prose is offline
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Thanks guys
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  #65  
Old 12-26-2020, 07:53 AM
Rallyant Rallyant is offline
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Awesome info here.
Is this still the latest on whats best to do?

What is the best brass to start with if going from 223?
What 223 brass should be avoided if any?

What 221FB brass is the best to start with? I just ordered 200 new Norma as its all i could fine here in Aus.

What are the part numbers of the dies you all recommended? so i can be sure im ordering the right thing,

Cheers
Glen
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  #66  
Old 12-26-2020, 03:57 PM
jdunham jdunham is offline
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Glen,
The norma brass is good stuff. I don't have any experience with it in 221 fireball. Just running it through a Full length Vartarg die will do it. As I stated in your other thread, the only question will be if you need to turn necks depending on the reamer used for your rifle.

The Redding Full length sizing die is part # 91636. That should be all you need. If you need to turn your necks slightly a 20 caliber neck turning kit from K+M or someone else will be needed. Call K+M and they will tell you what you need.

That is the easiest way if you already have some 221 brass. Forming it from 223 brass is a few more dies and a lot more time.
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  #67  
Old 12-26-2020, 04:18 PM
Bill K Bill K is offline
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That is the easiest way if you already have some 221 brass. Forming it from 223 brass is a few more dies and a lot more time.[/quote]

221 is the easiest for sure, but forming from 223/5.56 is not hard, just a few steps with about two to three dies, good off time/winter project.
And LC brass is cheap, easy to obtain, so you can make thousands for way less money, than buying 221 or 17 FB brass. Just a thought. Bill K

Adam Bentley is a member and will aid you in making it from LC. I am sure.
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  #68  
Old 12-26-2020, 06:20 PM
Bayou City Boy Bayou City Boy is offline
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I own a 20VT and enjoy shooting it a bunch, and making brass from Remington 221 FB brass is an easy task.

That said, has anyone simply tried to just neck 221 FB brass down to 20 caliber with no change on the shoulder angle and shoot it that way? I know the 20 VT has a "better shoulder" on it for accuracy, etc., because I read it on the internet , but has anyone ever actually tried just necking the 221 FB cartridge down to see if the cartridge is accurate in a well built rifle? I'd bet money that it is.....

Sometimes we get so carried away by the "latest and greatest" that we run right past the less obvious, but again does anyone know from experience about shooting a necked down 221 FB? I'm simply curious and I'm asking because I have two 221 FB rifles and they both shoot extremely well with that "horrible" 221 Rem FB brass... And my 20 VT is no slouch in the accuracy department using the same make of altered 221 FB brass.

-BCB
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  #69  
Old 12-26-2020, 07:23 PM
Bill K Bill K is offline
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BCB, when I have taken new 221FB brass to make into 20 VT or even my 20SCC, all I have done is run it into my 20 die ( which is a Whidden bushing die) which really only sizes the neck down to 20 cal.
Load it and fire it in the 20 cal chamber. Fire forms just right and shoots right along, accuracy wise, than the already formed and shot one's do.
No issues. Bill K
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  #70  
Old 12-26-2020, 07:35 PM
Bayou City Boy Bayou City Boy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill K View Post
BCB, when I have taken new 221FB brass to make into 20 VT or even my 20SCC, all I have done is run it into my 20 die ( which is a Whidden bushing die) which really only sizes the neck down to 20 cal.
Load it and fire it in the 20 cal chamber. Fire forms just right and shoots right along, accuracy wise, than the already formed and shot one's do.
No issues. Bill K

I fully understand about the fire forming in a 20 VT chamber if that is the route that one chooses to go....

I guess I should have been more specific, so I'll try here. Has anyone tried, on purpose, to make a simple no case shoulder altered 20-221 FB rifle (maintaining the 221 FB 23 degree shoulder angle) versus the fire forming 20 VT 30 degree shoulder angle, and what has been their experience with it?

I have no plans to try it, but I'm simply curious if anyone has tried it and what were the results like..........

-BCB
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Last edited by Bayou City Boy; 12-26-2020 at 08:12 PM.
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