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  #11  
Old 05-31-2022, 01:14 PM
Double D Double D is offline
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I have built all my 17 rimfires on Martini actions. Mostly 1215's, one 17HM2 on a Model 12. So far these Martini's have always out shot any other type rimfire guns that have gone out to the gopher patch with me. By out shot I mean accuracy and range.

One friend showed up with his Savage 17WSM and at long range my 1215 17HMR did far better way out the beyond 100 yards. When we swapped guns he did better with my 17HMR Martini than his 17WSM.

I shot his 17WSM. I got the impression the ammo was not very consistent. The firing impulse seem different every shot. Lock time of the gun seem alright, but the actual firing of the cartridge seem to change. I have notice this "lag" when changing from a 17 Rimfire Martini to a .22LR Martini, ignition seems slower. The WSM ignition wasn't just slower it was inconsistent.

I had a Savage 17HMR that I kept on hand for visitors, and have had friends come out with with various other guns in HMR. (I should say I had one, I loaned it to my Girlfriend and when we got married , she kept it.) If I were still in Montana I would get another for company.

None of them shot as accurately as the Martini's. A friend had a custom contender carbine made in 17MR that required him to snap action shut. I was always worried he was going to fire that gun closing it, but he never did--with me. You could not close and lock that gun gently. It was nearly as accurate as my Martini's.

My Martini's were accurate beyond 100 yards, Ernie's Contender also was accurate enough for gopher beyond 100 yards.

Where the 17WSM seemed superior to my 17HMR's was in target destruction. From the muzzle to out as far as you could get hits, the WSM destroyed targets. The 17 HMR would kill at long ranges, just not as spectacularly.

I had considered building a 1215 up 17WSM but, after shooting my friends I passed. My jump from 17 HMR is 17 Hornady Hornet.

Now I am not comparing all these "other" guns with my Martini's and calling the inferior, by no means. All that I have seen are perfect for use in the gopher patch. All very accurate rifles. You can't go wrong shooting one.

Starting off new guy in the gopher patch, I would suggest a Savage in 17HMR and good scope of 6 power.

A gopher by the way is a Sage Rat's cousin, a Richardson Ground squirrel. Great target--a diet coke can is about the size of a big bull Gopher-the can just a hair larger. Try hitting that 100 yards.
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  #12  
Old 05-31-2022, 02:37 PM
JSH JSH is offline
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I have had both, I kept the 17WSM and let the HMR go. For my purpose and use, it filled a gap.

I am like several others, if some one would come out with quality ammo, it would shine a lot brighter. I have spoke with a some in the rimfire ammo industry, the problem is the pressures that the 17WSM operates at. It requires a lot heavier rim to contain pressures. That in turn requires a heavier firing pin strike.

B23 helped guide me through putting my Savage together. It has its quirks but I am happy with it and the performance. I am about splat factor, my limit is 150-175, then I switch rigs. It is ugly as sin and not a smooth or sleek rig, it does it’s job.
I bought ammo at pretty much give away prices for quite a while, bought a case a month for a couple of years. I paid less than what 20 grain Vmax bullets cost per 100 at the time.
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  #13  
Old 05-31-2022, 02:55 PM
B23 B23 is offline
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In all fairness to the 17WSM ammo it's not like the 17HMR ammo is stellar. Is it better than the WSM stuff, maybe, but only marginally. I've done a fair amount of testing with both and the 17HMR ammo had wider spreads in velocity, often, much wider ES than the 17WSM. It's common to have 150+ sometimes ++ fps spreads with 17HMR ammo within the same box of 50.

Do they both have room for improvement, absolutely, but it's not as if one is great and the other sucks.

As I mentioned in my first post, right now with the lack of available rifles chambered in 17WSM not to mention ammo is nearly impossible to find, I'd have a hard time suggesting to anyone they should buy a 17WSM over a 17HMR. When it comes to availability, ammo and guns chambered in it, the 17HMR is clearly the winner.

Though 17WSM stuff is very difficult to find right now I don't think us 17WSM shooters need to panic just yet considering Savage has gone and developed their semi auto A17 platform to be chambered in WSM so hopefully that's a sign it's not going away anytime soon. I've got quite a few cases of 17WSM sitting on the shelf so I'm probably good for a couple years not to mention I don't have a great deal invested in my Bmag but I'd probably be considerably more concerned if I had a new custom RimX 17WSM that I just spend 4500 bucks on and was struggling to find ammo for it.
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  #14  
Old 05-31-2022, 03:34 PM
Gary in Illinois Gary in Illinois is offline
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Default 17 wsm

I am waiting and looking forward to the Savage automatic in 17 WSM.
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Last edited by Gary in Illinois; 05-31-2022 at 05:35 PM.
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  #15  
Old 05-31-2022, 04:56 PM
Bayou City Boy Bayou City Boy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean2 View Post
I can still load 50 center fire for the cost of 50 17 WSM rimfire ammo and the CF it is way more accurate. Loading 17 H, 22 H or 17 FB on a Dillon, you can crank out a lot of rounds in a couple of hours. Outside of the loading time saved buying rimfire, I do not see an upside to WSM.
I couldn't agree more with this logic. I'm in the realm that I always want to try something new in small caliber stuff. So I did that with the 17 WSM. The performance of the 17 WSM cartridge caught my attention immediately, but I'm not planning to dump my 17 HH, my 17 FB, or several 22 H rifles that I have.

RF cartridges have their place where losing cartridge cases is a concern for me. Think hunting varmints on a dark, no or little moon, night. It's fire and forget on private land.......... (dedicated coyote hunting excluded) Same same for the occasional northern hunt that I still enjoy where snow is a factor. And for just plinking at rocks, etc. while 4-wheeling, RF's are hard to beat for me. Especially if its a snappy 17 RF.

Plus my oldest grandson loves shooting "Papa's 17 rifle". That in itself is a good reason to have a 17 WSM. I'm sure the youngest grandson will too. At least for me it's another good reason to have a 17 WSSM.

Another good reason is maybe 10 years ago I ran across a gun store closing where I bought a "lifetime" supply of 17 WSM ammo the last day they were open for, iirc, $3.23 per box. American Express and done. I paid the Amex bill when it came and I moved on. It gets shot but I can easily replace what I shoot today in my AO, so I doubt that I could ever outlive my 17 WSM stach. I keep 20 boxes in my current "shoot it now" category that gets replaced as its shot, so it doesn't affect the one time purchase at all.

We're all different with different slants on the same topic.........

-BCB
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Last edited by Bayou City Boy; 05-31-2022 at 08:20 PM. Reason: clarity..........
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  #16  
Old 05-31-2022, 05:18 PM
Bayou City Boy Bayou City Boy is offline
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And a final reason for me.

All groups shot at 100 yards with my first 17 WSM rifle, a stainless/walnut sporter weight Ruger 77/17 rifle bought at First Stop Guns in RC. SD. First 17 WSM rifle that I ran across early in the game. My second stainless/laminated stock Ruger 17 WSM rifle with an 18" bull barrel shoots just as well.

Iirc, this rifle has an 0.002" shim. Early street talk said that Ruger got the 17 caliber barrels for these rifles from Shilen. I have no idea if that is correct or not





Yes, this is five shots. Notice the slightly elongated hole between the other two holes on each side.



-BCB
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I miss mean Tweets, competence, and $1.79 per gallon gasoline.

Yo no creo en santos que orinan.

Women and cats will do as they please. Men and dogs should relax and just get used to the idea.

Going keyboard postal over something that you read on the internet is like seeing a pile of dog crap on the sidewalk and choosing to step in it rather than stepping around it.

If You're Afraid To Offend, You Can't Be Honest - Thomas Paine

Last edited by Bayou City Boy; 05-31-2022 at 08:25 PM. Reason: Added pics from tablet........... and clarity added.....
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  #17  
Old 05-31-2022, 09:35 PM
B23 B23 is offline
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As was alluded to earlier the 17 Hornet is a better and more, consistently, accurate cartridge than either the 17HMR or 17WSM not to mention the 17 Hornet is a pretty big step up from even the 17WSM so it may be worth considering if you're looking for a small cartridge but with more of everything than a HMR.

Unfortunately, with CZ no longer making their 527 line of rifles which was one of the best 17 Hornets the choices of factory chambered 17 Hornets is even less but I think Ruger still makes a Model 77/17Hornet and Savage has something they chamber in 17 Hornet as well. Ammo for the 17 Hornet has kind of dried up at the moment but I'm sure eventually it'll get back to being more available.

As anyone who has a 17 Hornet call tell you they're a really fun little gun and for such a small cartridge they deliver a pretty good pop. I'd personally never choose one as my go to coyote gun but they're certainly more capable than any of the rimfires and they're still fairly quiet and really quiet when you shoot them suppressed. The nice thing about the 17 Hornets is many of the rimfire suppressors are 17 Hornet rated. The one I use on my 17HH only weighs 4.1 ounces.
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  #18  
Old 05-31-2022, 09:47 PM
moorepower moorepower is offline
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I am now really glad that I picked up a couple of 500 round bricks of the Fed American Eagle 17WSM for under $100!! I have a Savage Bmag and with bedding and some trigger work it shoots right at an inch. I got the Glades bolt handle and it improved it 100%. I shot a few Pdogs with it last year on a quick trip to Wyoming, and I did not want to take the time to load any .17H. In low wind, I got solid hits out to 300 yds. The 20 Vmax is a huge step up over any bullet loaded in the .17HMR. I am not getting rid of mine, and have a couple of more tweeks to try to improve the accuracy, but hands down any of my HMR's, 3 Savage will shoot smaller groups. That being said, IF, you have a .17H, I would get the HMR, and stick to those two. The Hornet is as big of an upgrade from the WSM as the WSM is from the HMR, and at 12.2 grains of powder, thats a lot of shooting per pound of powder.
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  #19  
Old 05-31-2022, 11:14 PM
Bayou City Boy Bayou City Boy is offline
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moorepower, that's a good comparison concerning filling gaps.

The 17 H that Ruger markets is a nice stainless/laminated stock bull barrel rifle with a threaded barrel. Mine shoots very well. It's another 77/17 variant that is well made and looks like a real rifle.

Yupper....... I have more 22/17 Ruger 77 floating bolt head rifles that all shoot very well than any one person could possibly have, according to internet experts on the subject.

-BCB
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I miss mean Tweets, competence, and $1.79 per gallon gasoline.

Yo no creo en santos que orinan.

Women and cats will do as they please. Men and dogs should relax and just get used to the idea.

Going keyboard postal over something that you read on the internet is like seeing a pile of dog crap on the sidewalk and choosing to step in it rather than stepping around it.

If You're Afraid To Offend, You Can't Be Honest - Thomas Paine

Last edited by Bayou City Boy; 05-31-2022 at 11:25 PM. Reason: clarity.....................
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  #20  
Old 05-31-2022, 11:55 PM
JDHasty JDHasty is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B23 View Post
As was alluded to earlier the 17 Hornet is a better and more, consistently, accurate cartridge than either the 17HMR or 17WSM not to mention the 17 Hornet is a pretty big step up from even the 17WSM so it may be worth considering if you're looking for a small cartridge but with more of everything than a HMR.

Unfortunately, with CZ no longer making their 527 line of rifles which was one of the best 17 Hornets the choices of factory chambered 17 Hornets is even less but I think Ruger still makes a Model 77/17Hornet and Savage has something they chamber in 17 Hornet as well. Ammo for the 17 Hornet has kind of dried up at the moment but I'm sure eventually it'll get back to being more available.

As anyone who has a 17 Hornet call tell you they're a really fun little gun and for such a small cartridge they deliver a pretty good pop. I'd personally never choose one as my go to coyote gun but they're certainly more capable than any of the rimfires and they're still fairly quiet and really quiet when you shoot them suppressed. The nice thing about the 17 Hornets is many of the rimfire suppressors are 17 Hornet rated. The one I use on my 17HH only weighs 4.1 ounces.
The only thing Ruger offers has an ~ 18 inch barrel. The Savage is… a Savage. The best thing out there today unless you are talking well over a thousand, in my opinion, are TC barrels from EABco, MGM & Bullberry. Doesn’t matter, they are all excellent. I could easily live with a Contender carbine if I didn’t already have a CZ. We have two Contender 17 HH carbine barrels and both shoot 20 V-max into half inch groups.
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