#81
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20 Extreme
What is your case/caliber ? How close to the VT is it ? Is your case based on the 221 FB, but with reformed LC brass ? Bill K
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#82
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20 extreme
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I hear a lot about a 40 degree shoulder extending cse life. Here is a link to apost that I did about No Fireforming-Low pressure = Long case life. How about Zero case stretch from new to three firings. http://www.saubier.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22058 Check out my other posts. |
#83
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20 VarTarg
I remember reading prior post's, but saw it was slightly less than Kindler's 20 VVT, so just bypassed it. Should have read more, I guess. I would like to mention that the figures you mention as to pressure numbers, are based on good pressure testing/recording equipment, right ? Also I did some measuring and thus far my 221 rem FB case's and others that I have formed with LC brass also measure right at .373 before and after firing, like yours, some of mine have been fired five times, so far.
I feel I can and will boost somewhat my 3850 fps (in my chrony) when I get some good Nosler 221 brass. But even if I don't, I still will go with the accuracy first, fps second and safety always first. I am consistently getting 1/2 inch with z-max, v-max, Varmaggedon and even the 34 grain Midsouth hp/s. So I am happy with my 20 SCC, the standard 20VT and a 204 R, just as you are with your 20Extreme. That is what matters. And actually the little critters I shoot, can not tell the difference in 100 fps or so, regardless. Bill K |
#84
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Quote:
The measurements I took at 0.3732" were past the 0.200 datum, which is ahead of the web, as the anvil on my micrometer is 0.25". If you are taking measurements on the web, just ahead of the extractor groove then the measurements are not the same. Safety is my first concern as well so I test all of my loads at least 1/2 grain over the one I select for general use. I actually back the 32 grain bullets off from a safe 4200 to about 4050 where the ES and SD are low and safe and accurate in all rifles. H 4198 at 20.3 grains leaves room in the case and the extra 150 fps I get with 20.8 grains is neither here nor there. Howver it is a lot more explosive on gophers than 3850 that you are stretching your primer pockets on. Good luck with the "good" Nosler brass. [IMG][/IMG] |
#85
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20 VarTarg
I am not even going to start a pissing match over this, but I am measuring at the same location you are, by your photo's, etc. And so far my primer pockets are staying just as tight as when I first loaded the case's. So I am satisfied with my results, especially the accuracy, which is what I am mainly after, The varmints I hunt are just as dead, then case life, then fps. So for now I wait for the "good" Nosler brass, then down the road some Lapua. Bill K
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#86
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My my !! Somebody urinate in your Wheaties this morning?? Why is it that you vehemently tear down anybody's chambering ideas and preferences if it isn't a 20 Extreme? Ever hear of live and let live? Different strokes for different folks? Blondes and brunettes? Here's a few points for you to consider before your next rant, forgive me if I'm not the gentleman Bill K is .... 1. YOU don't have any pressure testing equipment. To use the 20VT numbers isn't correct, from what I've been told by the folks that have chambered the 20SCC, it holds approximately 1-2 grs more than a 20VT. Just like your 20Extreme....so extrapolating 20VT data and applying it here is apples and oranges. Shoulder angle matters, taper matters, shoulder shape matters. For example, I have both a 17FB and a 17/23 SMc, which is formed from 17FB brass. They may share the same parent brass, but with even marginally more capacity and a different shoulder shape, they are not even in the same ballpark , performance wise, using the exact same powder. Exterminator, in this case.....250fps more with the 25gr Vmax , is the difference between the two rifles I was testing side by side. AND the 17FB had 2" more barrel than my 17/23SMc. If you're into picking pepper out of fly crap, be genuine enough to at least use a small tweezers... you're incorrectly measuring with a micrometer and cutting with a chainsaw. 2. I don't know what you have against Nosler brass, I haven't used my 204R brass in my 17/204 enough to make a determination yet, but to arbitrarily bad-mouth a product without rigorous testing, is a little classless to say the least. 3. You know what, you just made up my mind for me. I have always thought the 222 case is a very nice neck down candidate, a tad more efficient that the 20-223 family of cases..( I own a few 20P's and 20 Tac's)....I have a 17-222 that shoots bugholes, was thinking about a 20-222 of some sort for 32 gr bullets and efficient loads, maybe even a 20 Extreme, but now I'm gonna chamber a 20SCC. AND I'm gonna buy Nosler brass for it.
__________________
"I used to wear barrels out fretting over a bunch of things that don't amount to a rats petutie." |
#87
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Quote:
Last edited by 20 EXTREME; 03-30-2014 at 08:04 PM. |
#88
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1. YOU don't have any pressure testing equipment. Still. Seems it's OK for YOU to determine pressures on your 20 EXTREME, by case stretch and primer evaluation but when someone does it on their case, they're being " unsafe". OK, now we've established that YOU are the only competent hand loader on this site. ( or sight, in Canada...)
2. The guys that have this chambering are getting the best performance out of AA2200, not H4198. They are shooting 32gr bullets, which is a good fit for this size case, IMO. The intent was to gain some performance over the VT and have a case that could be just neck-sized for multiple firings. I didn't see where anyone challenged you and claimed that they could shoot a 40gr bullet faster than your beloved 20EXTREME. A 222 based case should have a size-able edge there.. 3. Thanks for the measuring lesson. I had NO IDEA that the .200 datum line was ahead of the extractor groove !! That changes EVERYTHING! You better PM Bill K also and let him know that he's supposed to measure his case BEFORE and after he fires them to check for expansion. He's a little slow so I'm sure this fundamental process is beyond his grasp. All joking aside, I do believe you can get a decent feel for pressures by measuring the .200 line. Point being, this isn't absolute between cases, different shaped cases act differently. Shoulder angle, shoulder shape, lenght-width ratio, rate of powder used, are just some of the variables that come to mind, and all become a factor. 4. Yes you did badmouth Nosler brass. But by the same token, getting over 4200fps with less than 21 grs of powder is QUITE the achievement !! I will give you that! Maybe Win brass IS better....I better look into it. 5. I don't know if there was a lovers spat gone wrong or what, but you sure have a crush on some folks. I'm past the grade school age propensities of taking sides, I'll call them as I see them, thank you very much. Nobody is perfect and sometimes people just can't get along, heck I'm best taken in small doses, I understand that, but this vitriol and thinly based hatred for specific folks and for any 20 cal case that isn't the 20EXTREME is tiresome. I don't remember anyone on this site ( or sight, in Canada) calling you an idiot, but maybe a good look in the mirror would be applicable at this juncture. " Best check yoself , fore you wreck yourself", as they say in the hood. Have a nice day.
__________________
"I used to wear barrels out fretting over a bunch of things that don't amount to a rats petutie." |
#89
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20 VarTarg
Love it, Bowfisher... By the way a check with Western shows they appearantly have not pressure checked a 20 SCC, not even sure if they heard of it yet.. I am happy, know you and others are also. So will let a sleeping dog lay at rest, from now on. We each have our own opinions, likes and dislikes in this life.. Stay safe, well and sane. Bill K
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#90
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Well said
Well said Bowfisher. I couldn't agree more. I could say a lot more but you have made very valid points. I got as well as others, some will never get it.
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