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  #11  
Old 04-01-2021, 06:19 PM
Daryl Daryl is offline
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I never lost a case doing this with 500 RP or the 300 WW brass. I only push the shoulder back as far as necessary with the seating die first. Touching the shell holder against the bottom of the die is usually over sizing for most chambers. There is the odd short chamber that requires this, and even grinding material off the bottom of the die or top of the shell holder, but those occurrences are very few and far between.

It is the seating die that has the bullet crimp ring & running the case too far up inside the seating die will cause a buckle at the shoulder - every time.
If I can figure it out, you can too.
Sounds like the "double ended die" does exactly the same thing that using the seating die first then sizing die second does.
I mostly used imperial die wax as a lube, but also Hornady & Lee case lube. They all worked perfectly.
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  #12  
Old 04-01-2021, 07:00 PM
Dean2 Dean2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daryl View Post
I never lost a case doing this with 500 RP or the 300 WW brass. I only push the shoulder back as far as necessary with the seating die first. Touching the shell holder against the bottom of the die is usually over sizing for most chambers. There is the odd short chamber that requires this, and even grinding material off the bottom of the die or top of the shell holder, but those occurrences are very few and far between.

It is the seating die that has the bullet crimp ring & running the case too far up inside the seating die will cause a buckle at the shoulder - every time.
If I can figure it out, you can too.
Sounds like the "double ended die" does exactly the same thing that using the seating die first then sizing die second does.
I mostly used imperial die wax as a lube, but also Hornady & Lee case lube. They all worked perfectly.
Daryl is right about the seating die doing the crimping. Brain fart on my part. Long and short, before you spend the extra money, set the seating die 1.5 turns from the shell holder and the same with the FL die. Put some Imperial or other good lube and run one into the seating die then the FL the die, making sure the case isn't too long before running it into the FL die. My bet is, you won't need to order the BB. I made many hundred with just the two dies as BB won't ship to Canada we have to find our own way to make brass. I actually sized 460 Weatherby mag down to 338-378 just using 378 and 338-378 dies and never lost a case.

Right to left, 460, 378 seater, 378 FL, 338-378 part way into seater for demonstration purposes, 338-378 seater all the way in, 338-378 FL, lots of Imperial lube.


Last edited by Dean2; 04-01-2021 at 07:11 PM.
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  #13  
Old 04-01-2021, 08:00 PM
TinMan TinMan is offline
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CGC, I don't have a 17 Hornet, but for standard 22 Hornet, annealing with my propane torch takes about 5 seconds per case. I aim touching the blue inner cone of the flame at the neck/shoulder joint of the case. I hold the case in my fingers and rotate the case to avoid overheating the case head area. Then drop the case into a can and just let it air cool. I do not water quench.

For Hornet, I sometimes hold the case in a small socket with a long extension to help hold and rotate the case, when doing a lot at one time. When I first started annealing, I used a metronome on one second intervals to time and helped count the seconds. Worked slick.
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  #14  
Old 04-02-2021, 02:41 PM
Intel6 Intel6 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean2 View Post
I actually sized 460 Weatherby mag down to 338-378 just using 378 and 338-378 dies and never lost a case.

Right to left, 460, 378 seater, 378 FL, 338-378 part way into seater for demonstration purposes, 338-378 seater all the way in, 338-378 FL, lots of Imperial lube.

Funny, I got a deal on a few boxes of .416 Weatherby and necked them up to .458" for my .460 Weatherby. They work out well and are way cheaper than the correct headstamped brass.
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  #15  
Old 04-02-2021, 04:11 PM
Dean2 Dean2 is offline
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Originally Posted by Intel6 View Post
Funny, I got a deal on a few boxes of .416 Weatherby and necked them up to .458" for my .460 Weatherby. They work out well and are way cheaper than the correct headstamped brass.
A lot of my 460 brass was necked up 378. In Canada the 460 is now a prohibited rifle because it exceeds 10,000 Joules. When they were trying to get rid of the BMGs they managed through sheer incompetence to capture a bunch of pure hunting rifles as well. No need for 460 cases unless we get lucky and a Conservative government gets elected and repeals the Order in Council or it gets struck down in court.
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  #16  
Old 04-02-2021, 07:03 PM
Daryl Daryl is offline
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That's anything producing over 7,375.62FPE.
Also includes the .700 Nitro at 8,017fpe & the .600 nitro
at 7,679fps.
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Last edited by Daryl; 04-02-2021 at 07:14 PM.
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  #17  
Old 04-02-2021, 08:18 PM
CGC CGC is offline
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Ok guys, I think I have it dialed in now. I set both dies back a turn and a half and worked from there like some suggested. No more fold like creases or buckles on the brass.

I have a question, do I anneal before fireforming or after. Reason why I ask is that I know that Remington brass is thinner supposedly more soft than other brass.

I have some AA 1680 powder, I normally used 12 grains forming my 17 ackley. What would you guys suggest for the hornet?

Last edited by CGC; 04-02-2021 at 08:35 PM.
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  #18  
Old 04-02-2021, 10:27 PM
Daryl Daryl is offline
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I use the same charge of powder for fireforming as I do in formed cases.
The velocity is 35fps lower than when forming as energy is used up when forming, compared to the same load in formed brass. I was using Lil'Gun powder, but powder make is not important. The point of impact was identical at
100 meters. So was accuracy, so I shot rats when fireforming.

As to load, seems to me, I was using 12.6gr. 1680 with 25gr.Vmax. bullets.

When forming RP brass, my brass had been fired 14 times as .22 Hornet, then converted to .17AH. I fireformed it and shot it as .17AH another 2 times before it started cracking the necks. It had NEVER been annealed prior to this, but I only partially neck sized (1/2 the neck) it in FL dies, so it was never overworked.

When I formed new WW .22Hornet brass to .17AH, I had to anneal after fireforming. I lost a couple cases after the first reload in formed .17AH brass.
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Last edited by Daryl; 04-02-2021 at 10:30 PM.
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  #19  
Old 04-03-2021, 12:44 AM
56S 56S is offline
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I annealed prior to fireforming. Make an attempt to prevent heating any further toward the rim than neccessary. I made a shell holder by slipping a piece of thin brass tubing over a 1/4" drive socket and cut it down so just the neck and shoulder and about 1/8" of the body of the brass was exposed to the flame. I put the affair in a cordless screwdriver to spin while heating.

I too fireform with the same 12.2 gr CFE BLK that I use post fireform. Accuracy is very, very close pre and post.
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  #20  
Old 04-03-2021, 04:30 PM
Dean2 Dean2 is offline
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Glad that worked out for you. Hopefully you were able to cancel the extra dies. I would suggest annealing after forming the brass. If you anneal before, the softer brass is a lot easier to crunch or crinkle. I would also fire form a few before annealing any, Rem brass is pretty soft to start with, you may not want it softer than it is. If you don't get any cracks in the neck or shoulder areas, shoot it a few times before annealing. There is such a thing as brass that is too soft in the neck and shoulder.
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