Saubier.com  



Go Back   Saubier.com > Saubier.com Forums > Small Caliber Discussion Board

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 12-05-2017, 01:47 PM
kenbro kenbro is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Lancashire UK
Posts: 3,294
Default

Take one of the marked cases and cut it off just above the mark, then you will see a groove around the inside where the brass is stretching if the case was getting ready to separate.
Ken.
__________________
" Pay it forward buddy"
Get up each morning and don’t let the old man in.
(Clint Eastwood).
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 12-05-2017, 01:49 PM
william t. oviatt william t. oviatt is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Lander, Wyoming
Posts: 2,524
Default

Both scenarios are possible to give what you show....but, I go with Reed on this, for two reasons....

One: it is the prudent option to save your bacon!

Two: I look close at the gouge in the brass on the far right piece and the crack follows down into the valley of that gouge...that would not show like that if it were a line in the dies....so I would think "Head-space Issue" and per-separation of the brass...had both conditions and if the dies are doing this, a bright light in looking into the FL die should show that line in a clean inside surface, if that is what is causing it.

It looks to me to be caused, as already stated, by over-sizing the brass...once you find the "Crush fit" to your chamber, go no further....

Course, if your chamber is oversized for the factory cartridges, this may be happening upon the very first firing and the damage is done and then the cartridges are trying to stay together-shaped to the new dimensions. If this is the case, you have a wildcat chamber and will have to build your own cases to fit...how do these cases in the pic compare to pre-fired cases? If head separation, you should see easily, a difference.

Just my thoughts...

Bill
__________________
"Burn Powder, Not Comrades"!
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 12-05-2017, 01:51 PM
william t. oviatt william t. oviatt is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Lander, Wyoming
Posts: 2,524
Default

Smart tick! Ken....gets right to the solution of the worst case....good idea!
Bill
__________________
"Burn Powder, Not Comrades"!
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 12-05-2017, 02:03 PM
Jim D Jim D is offline
Supporting Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Iowa
Posts: 550
Default

Maybe cut one in half lengthwise.


Jim
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 12-05-2017, 02:09 PM
fat cat fat cat is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 900
Default Hornet

I've cut case in half on my Hornet and they looked fine! Trust me your hood to go!
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 12-05-2017, 02:49 PM
william t. oviatt william t. oviatt is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Lander, Wyoming
Posts: 2,524
Default

Hey Fat C.
It sure would be nice if you are right!

But, he needs to go through the same steps as you have to Prove it is as you say! Don't give him false hope from your experiences! He just may have a little more issue than you have had...as I said, both scenarios are possible, and a blank-across the board assurance is not appropriate for his safety in this case!

You may be absolutely right! But, what if you're, not! and there is indication from the pics that it is a head separation issue...at least I see the possibility, here! That's why he comes with his questions!

Respectfully,

Bill
__________________
"Burn Powder, Not Comrades"!
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 12-05-2017, 04:53 PM
17tbs 17tbs is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 612
Default

Just my 2 cents, but the photos indicate an imminent case head separation.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 12-06-2017, 03:20 AM
georgeld georgeld is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Pueblo, CO
Posts: 5,832
Send a message via MSN to georgeld
Default

I had the same thoughts instantly when I saw those pictures
as Reed. Long before I read any other posts.

Couple things I've had experience with. I always FL sized .222mag cases.
100 pcs loaded and fired over 60 times out lasted the barrel on my Sako.
Many a day I loaded and fired 400 rounds with those same 100 cases.
In the end, I had: lost two, split ONE neck, and crushed two others in the press. Never trimmed, annealed, or cleaned them and yes they looked nasty. That proved to me just FL sizing don't ruin brass. I sold them to another guy with full disclosure. He put them to use and was tickled with them.

Never ever just toss 'em in the scrap bucket. Always crush them with pliers. Never know when someone else might pick them out of scrap and reuse them.

The one on the left, crush it just above the separation line and I'd bet it will break off there and save the sawing. Be glad you asked here, you've gotten some great advice. Now it's up to you whether you follow it or not. Getting a broken case out of a chamber sometimes can be tricky.

It's hard to see for sure, kinda looks like a double strike on the pin indention of the primers. Might just be reflection. IF so, might be a week firing pin
spring. Otherwise the primers look good.

Could it be possible your buddy bought someone else's scrap that wasn't crushed?
__________________
George

"Gun Control is NOT about guns,
it's about CONTROL!!"

Last edited by georgeld; 12-06-2017 at 03:25 AM. Reason: more bs thoughts
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 12-06-2017, 03:57 AM
GrocMax GrocMax is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: McKinney TX
Posts: 488
Default

Do the wire check to feel for the line on the inside, just to be sure.

Note the lines on the outside are in the exact same position on each case and perfectly radial, CHS doesn't do this, CHS is more random and wavy and goes from the inside out, not outside in, clean and inspect the chamber for poor finish like a chipped reamer or chip drag during finish reaming, if so polish it out with some scotchbrite on a split stick with a drill.

Primers look fine.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 12-06-2017, 04:07 AM
hemiallen hemiallen is offline
Supporting Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,239
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by toxo View Post
Fairly new to this reloading lark so I apologise if this is a stupid question.
In an effort to find a quiet/accurate load for my 17HH I fired these four loaded with 2.4gr of Trail Boss. Since starting I haven't found any pressure sugns except flattened primers. My buddy bought some ?times used cases and I'm guessing this is what I used. Is this the start of head/case seperation? Can someone school me on case pressure with low loads please?

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]
Have you reloaded for this rifle before? Could be a bad chamber.

If you have fired factory ammo and this is a new phenomenon, i might lean toward poor reloading technique, but if you assume it is ?fired brass, maybe look closer at that brass before you reloaded it to see any signs of this same mark. Using unknown brass is reason, for me, to not use used brass from an unknown source, and even once fired for certain is setting yourself up for problems. I have learned using brass from another gun can lead to problems, so I try and avoid it at all costs. Brass is cheap, not sure why folks cheap out on an important component.

Is the brass bulged, having a good micrometer, or a good vernier caliper and a steady hand can show a bulge, and that looks like it may not be round near the horizontal lines??

It is very difficult to make much of a educated guess using images, hence the question of a bulge, out of round bulge, etc. (ie egg shaped expansion)

I vote to cut them open and look for an internal stretch mark indicating a case head separation/ headspace issue.

Some folks seem to think their suggestion is the only answer, I try and avoid emotion in a reply. A lot of time guessing about a problem is just that, and everyone has an opinion from their personal experiences. I try and hedge on the safe side, hence cutting them open will answer one major question.

Another suggestion, from experience, is start with new, or once fired in your chamber brass, select a load and set everything up. Load 5 rounds and shoot them next time you go to the range. Reload those, many times, to see if your dies are set up properly for long brass life, if the load allows the cases to live a long life, etc. This will tell you if your brass and load is set up for long brass life, if you care to know, IMHO.

Lots of opinions, lots of solutions. Hopefully some here lead you toward successfully resolving this problem. Lord knows there are several reasons for what we perceive we can see in these pictures, and this is the time to do some analysis to learn a new reloading technique, process, etc. We could all be going down a long process of trying to help, when possibly the original brass may already have started case separations starting, etc. Time to start wasting some brass by cutting it for an internal inspection, before this creates a safety issue. Cut one an 1/8" above toe line also, you might see the ring starting easier than cutting across the line.

Post images as you go, this will allow better suggestions.

Good luck

Allen
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 12:45 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.