Saubier.com  



Go Back   Saubier.com > Saubier.com Forums > Small Caliber Discussion Board

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-10-2012, 08:40 AM
Kevo Kevo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Tasmania,Australia
Posts: 125
Default Teething problems with new 17AH

Hi to all,
Today I finally picked up my converted martini 17AH for the first time. I live 200 miles from nearest gunsmith. I loaded some new brass with 1/10g less than the suggested load for a 20g Berger bullet. The cases have been through a forming die and a full lenght sizing die. I have read many articles that say the best way to fireform the shells is to use a full suggested load to prevent splitting the cases.
The shot I fired was very difficult to extract from the rifle. Is this normal with the first few shots. Should I reduce the loads and try again tomorrow? I will contact the gunsmith , but I respect your hands on knowledge in this area and would appreciate your input.
Thanks,
Kevo
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-10-2012, 09:20 AM
kenbro kenbro is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Lancashire UK
Posts: 3,294
Default

Not being a 17AH owner I have no practical experience,but, .1 of a grain less than someone elses suggested load seems a bit too close for comfort to me.
Others will soon chime in and put you right.

Ken.
__________________
" Pay it forward buddy"
Get up each morning and don’t let the old man in.
(Clint Eastwood).

Last edited by kenbro; 01-10-2012 at 12:14 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-10-2012, 11:27 AM
MarinePMI MarinePMI is offline
Supporting Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,483
Default

Start low and work up. Reduce your load by at least 10% (not 1/10th of a grain, but 10% of the entire load value) and go from there. Since the 17AH is a wildcat round, every rifle by every different smith will be slightly different, and load data will reflect that.
__________________
MarinePMI
________________

We sleep peaceably in our beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do great violence on our behalf. -- George Orwell
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-10-2012, 11:43 AM
csterner csterner is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Gettysburg, PA
Posts: 1,904
Default

what powder are you using. After researching the net for ff loads when I got mine, I tried Lil Gun and had a heck of a mess, blowing primers, splitting cases. The "recommended" FF load was 10 gr with a 20 gr bullet. I had to back down to 9 grains to keep from piercing primers.

Agreed...start low and work up to a load that forms best in your chamber.

edit to add...I assume you know about the varying case capacities in hornet brass between manufacturer. There's almost a grain difference between Win and Rem brass alone, so you can see loads don't interchange between brass. Make sure your what brass your "reference" load is calling for.

Last edited by csterner; 01-10-2012 at 11:45 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-10-2012, 12:48 PM
JoeZ JoeZ is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,002
Default

What they said. Call the smith and see what brass the reamer was cut for. Drop that load 10%. Leave the lube on the cases. It helps the brass flow and is easier on it for the 1st firing.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-10-2012, 03:42 PM
ackleyman ackleyman is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 155
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevo View Post
Hi to all,
Today I finally picked up my converted martini 17AH for the first time. I live 200 miles from nearest gunsmith. I loaded some new brass with 1/10g less than the suggested load for a 20g Berger bullet. The cases have been through a forming die and a full lenght sizing die. I have read many articles that say the best way to fireform the shells is to use a full suggested load to prevent splitting the cases.
The shot I fired was very difficult to extract from the rifle. Is this normal with the first few shots. Should I reduce the loads and try again tomorrow? I will contact the gunsmith , but I respect your hands on knowledge in this area and would appreciate your input.
Thanks,
Kevo
Kevo, my fire forming load is 10.8g of AA1680 with a CCIBR-4 primer and a 20g Berger...really fine accuracy.

I would advise you to put a VERY heavy chamfer on the case mouth to guide the bullet getting started.

Your load is just too hot.

Good luck
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-10-2012, 04:00 PM
RePete RePete is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Idaho, Clearwater County
Posts: 1,479
Default

[quote=ackleyman;125276]Kevo, my fire forming load is 10.8g of AA1680 with a CCIBR-4 primer and a 20g Berger...really fine accuracy.
[quote]

ackleyman,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Are you in the lands with those Bergers?

Thanks, Charlie
__________________
I plead the 2nd.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-10-2012, 04:14 PM
Chuck Miller Chuck Miller is offline
Supporting Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: North Texas - Gods Country
Posts: 3,855
Default advice

All the advice mentioned is good but something no one touched on, the Martini action. Owning a lot of these that have been sporterized you realize that there is almost no extraction power, ie...they don't extract very well when loads get to max levels. You might try dumbing down the load a little or take a cleaning rod with you to punch out fireforming loads. More custom Martini's end up on the auction sites because of this, owners get tired of dealing with poor extraction. I've got a Martini action and barrel up at Twisted Barrel that Marty is chambering into a 17AH, it will be my second in that chambering and your issues sound pretty common with the Martini.

Last edited by Chuck Miller; 01-10-2012 at 04:17 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-10-2012, 07:52 PM
Alycidon Alycidon is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: England
Posts: 1,071
Default

What powder are you using, most of us in England are using Vit N120, just over 10 grains is more than enough.

You WILL need to anneal the brass, this is simply done with a plumber blow torch. If you dont the necks will split.

A
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-10-2012, 10:46 PM
Foxpounder Foxpounder is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 104
Default AH Teething

Kevo
I too started with the AH last year. My forming and loading knowledge was limited. This site is the place to learn. It sure has helped me.

I am forming with my seating die without the seater first,then I just neck size. One of the tricks that I found to good brass is set your dies up so that you get a "crush fit" on that first firing. You want that rounded shoulder to fit right up tight in the chamber when the bolt closes.
I'm not leaving any lube or oils on cases.

If your setting your shoulder back, you will see some stress at the head juncture of the case. I was setting my shoulders back .003/.005 when I started and didn't know it. I was cracking cases at the head. Since I corrected this I have no signs of stress in my brass.

I have shot a lot of brass without annealing and did not see a single cracked neck. I did recently start annealing for more consistent neck tension.

Now I am Fireforming
Flashhole reaming
Uniform primer pockets
Anneal necks/shoulders
Trimming/length
Chamfering
Neck turning/outside diam
Resize neck only/no set back on shoulder
In that order
I'm forming with 11.2 gr of N120 /25gr vmax just starting to touch lands
My fox hunting bud is forming his with 12 gr AA1680/20 gr vmax .005 off
lands.
I hope that you have great luck and enjoy the whole process as much as I have.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 02:27 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.