coyote hunters: 17 squirrel&mink

[king canis]

i'm new to the board, but no stranger to 17's. my first was a 17 ack bee on a 310 martini cadet. i used it to kill a lot of coyotes for about 10 years, last 4 years it hasn't seen much action. the past 2 seasons i have used the 17 fireball. i have registered a few kills in the 350-400 yd range but don't recommend trying it often. i have used 25 gr hammets(gone, but the woodchuck den bullets seem to be the same thing) and bergers with great success, 25 gr hornady hp was a disaster (didn't get the job done too well). i haven't tried any v-max in 17, good yote bullet or turd? i shoot 14.5 gr of h-322 in the bee, 16.5 in the FB. i have noticed a large difference in noise level between the two despite the small charge weight difference, both are hot loads. this has sent me down the path of wanting to build a quiet gun for coyotes. as in call, shoot, keep calling, distant coyotes not spooked. i intend to use a 28-29" barrel to keep noise down& velocity up. i am considering the 17 squirrel or mink. i am leaning toward mink since cases may be easier to form. bullets in the 20-25 gr range. anybody using these cartridges on coyotes? this gun will see use 2-4 days per week during the pelting season. please relate your personal experience. thank you.

[ab_bentley]

I can tell you are set on the 17, I was too, but after many 2hr plus conversations with Kevin Harrington, the creator of the Minks, he advised me on the 20. He said the noise level is low and velocity can be pumped if needed. Anything the 17 can do the 20 can as well with more killing power. He related a story of a goose being shot at 350+yrds with one and it killed it dead. I go thru all of this to say that if you really want to know how the 17 Mink is going to act, look up 17 Velociraptor, it is a 5.7 based case which is a twin to the mink, several people on this board have them and love them. As with the mink the VRAP can be finicky, the 20's aren't as bad. Just some food for thought, I am currently in the last stages of building a 20 mink on a Mini Mauser as we speak.

[king canis]

i'm a little snake bit on 20's after using a 204 ruger for the first month of my pelt work last year. it was 1/4 moa with 3 different bullets, but i had dismal results on broadside shots on coyotes. i ran 32 gr v-max first. my 17 ack. bee gave much better killing power. 35 grain bergers were next since the bee worked so well with 25's. results weren't much better and pelt damage was bad. it seems the bullets would rapidly expand/ fragment just before exiting, resulting in energy spent past vitals and exit holes in the 5"-8" category. my 220 swift and 22-250 i used to use didn't cause as much damage. i took 24 coyotes in 4 weeks, so this is not a random sampling. my cousin reported worse results with 40 gr. pills. he lost every dog he shot except one. i had to shoot several of mine twice. all problems were broadside, longitudinal shots were fine. enter the 17 fireball. it went 24 for 24. it has served me well this season also. now i just need a quieter version.

[gunhaus]

Welcome aboard.

I would think either cartridge would suit your needs. You could also consider the 17AH. I've got loads that push 20 & 25 gr bullets at 1800 & 2400 for small game use. And a load that pushes our 25 gr at 3100 for use on fox and coon at calling ranges. I've only killed a couple of coyotes with the 3100 fps loads, but they worked just fine. The AH is simple enough to make, and it seems to respond well to a wide range of velocities. Those fox loads are quite a bit more quiet than a full load as well.

I'd stay away from the 25 V-Max on fur. Very fragile, lot's of splash wounds. I was a little surprised at your results with the 35 Berger/204. We've had pretty good results with it and our 36 & 38 gr bullets at 204 speeds. But, I can tell you take the fur very seriously, and I admire that! And, I've yet to have the 20's be as fur friendly as the 17's no matter what bullet.

Foxhunter has had a good bit of experience with loads at this level on predators, and I'm sure he'll chime in with his thoughts & experiences as well as well.

-John

[Tim Anderson]

I personnely think any 17 cal smaller than a 17 Rem. should not be used on coyotes.. For good clean kills the bullet shouldbe a 25 gr. or heavier and comeing out of the barrel at 3800 fps or more. Sure if you can bring them in close then most any 17 cal. will work but that don't always happen and some hunters don't have enough sense to let a coyote thats to far out walk.. Tim A.

[gunhaus]

Hey Tim,

Situation & terrain play a big role in selecting a cartridge I think. My all around Coyote rig is my 17-204 with our 30gr bullet at 4100. As I mentioned in my post, the 3100 fps AH load was for fox and coon at calling ranges. In most of my areas, and with the methods I use this usually translates to shots in the 30 -50 yards range, and rarely past 100. Let a coyote show up on a prime fox stand, and so be it. He'll be well with in a distance that I feel comfortable using such loads.

I agree that these loads are not the best all purpose choice, but for specialized conditions they can fit the bill. I kinda made the assumption that King was looking for a very quiet, yet effective load for those close in calling situations where there might be another lurker or two floating around. Could be wrong?

-John

[Tim Anderson]

Not all but most coyotes are'nt bothered that much by a gun shot from a 17 Rem. thats one of the pluses to why i still use them.. If a hunter knows his limatations then yes he could get by with a smaller 17 cal. cartridge. But there are also some tuff coyotes out there that can handle a few hits so i don't leave anything to chance...
Maybe a 221 F.B. wouldbe the answer for up close coyotes and minium noise....

[PatR]

a 221 Fireball, I have shot a good number of coyotes over the years with mine and have had more than a few show up and stop to have a sniff of the first one I shot. A 50 grain bullet at 2900-3000 penetrates well and has a low noise report. This fella ran into one at 200 yards so as you can see they get the job done. My next choice would be a .20-222.

[king canis]

i'm enjoying hearing from everybody here, much appreciated. i should relate some experience here. i have registered dozens of kills on the 150-250 range with the 17 ack bee and 17 fireball. many beyond that. i am looking for stealth to help me get those "lurkers" indeed. it would be nice to not disturb the surrounding area after shooting a dog or two on stand. in central wyoming calling pressure has become pretty bad. on low snow years like this one, everyone has access to all of my favorite areas. last year was a high snow year. i drive a geo tracker with balloon tires to cross drifted snow to get to remote areas where pressure is light, often times 40+ miles back off the pavement. when these areas aren't bothered you can use a louder gun. when they wise up it's a different story. the bee and fireball do spook the coyotes enough that getting a second one to come after the shot is rare. i've watched 'em running in the distance. for reaching the long stuff i already have a .243 ackley running 95gr vld's around 3500fps through a 29.5" barrel. it's a big one, 17 lbs. with nightforce nxs. i do carry it in field on hikes up to 1 mi. when necessary, still weighs less than the yote. i am looking to shoot coyotes out to 200 with the mink or squirrel, leaning toward mink. i shoot 75% of my coyotes at 150. if they stop, they die. too much can go wrong under 100 yards. those of you who shoot dozens per year on calling stand know what i mean.

[trotterlg]

I do know that more energy equals more noise and less energy equals less noise, there is no free lunch. Only way to get the noise down is to get the pressure down at the end of the barrel when the bullet exits. I would say your only choice is a very long barrel or putting a break on it to disperse the noise in a direction that is not down range, if you hear more noise the Coyote hears less. How about a break with one port pointing straight up? Good luck. Larry