17 cal 20gr V/Max splashing

[wally bennett]

Does any body else have problems with this head last 12 months or so i have lost 4 fox all with chest hits all with the fox standing looking at me at just over 100yds last one yesterday Henry was shooting my 17A/H either from window or bonnet or prone and i drove around looking for rabbits.
First 6 shots got 6 rabbits last one at 275yds (Bushnell RF) and looked ito the last field to see a big dark fox sitting faceing us at 120 yds slightly down hill now we know this fox seen him countless times in fact i shot his wife couple of months ago and we know he will stay and watch as long as we dont open any of the doors so Henry shot out of the window i was looking over his shoulder so could see the gun and the fox and saw the hit on the bib it knocked him back and he rolled into the long grass so i drove straight down to him but the basket was gone we found a lot of blood but no fox.
I was using 20grV/M again cause i was expecting rabbits or crows not fox but i am glad i dont have many left about 35 i think then i go back to Noisler or Berger 20gr H/P,s
Any comments please i loved the 35grV/M in 22Hornet and the 17gr V/M in the HMR but i think the extra velocity "3.670ft/sec" causes a surface splash and dont penetrate for a flop .
The fact that i saw the hit tells me it splashed if i had been useng a HP i would not have seen that (i was using binoes at the time)
Wally

[trotterlg]

What twist are you running? There is a lot of energy stored in the bullet spin, you may be very close to maximum and any little thing the bullet touches makes it go poof. I had a 17 Remington that would blow up bullets hitting a rain drop or a blade of grass. Larry

[wally bennett]

Originally Posted by trotterlg

What twist are you running? There is a lot of energy stored in the bullet spin, you may be very close to maximum and any little thing the bullet touches makes it go poof. I had a 17 Remington that would blow up bullets hitting a rain drop or a blade of grass. Larry

Its a 10 twist but i dont have trouble with any other except 20grV/M.
Wally

[varmintshooter]

Wally, I don't shoot all that many fox but the 20 gr Vmax has worked better than anything else for me. I am shooting a 17 fb at 4000 fps. Usually a small entrance and no exit. I tried 30 golds and 25gr hornady hp got pass thru's with both.

[Alycidon]

Originally Posted by wally bennett

Does any body else have problems with this head last 12 months or so i have lost 4 fox all with chest hits all with the fox standing looking at me at just over 100yds last one yesterday Henry was shooting my 17A/H either from window or bonnet or prone and i drove around looking for rabbits.
First 6 shots got 6 rabbits last one at 275yds (Bushnell RF) and looked ito the last field to see a big dark fox sitting faceing us at 120 yds slightly down hill now we know this fox seen him countless times in fact i shot his wife couple of months ago and we know he will stay and watch as long as we dont open any of the doors so Henry shot out of the window i was looking over his shoulder so could see the gun and the fox and saw the hit on the bib it knocked him back and he rolled into the long grass so i drove straight down to him but the basket was gone we found a lot of blood but no fox.
I was using 20grV/M again cause i was expecting rabbits or crows not fox but i am glad i dont have many left about 35 i think then i go back to Noisler or Berger 20gr H/P,s
Any comments please i loved the 35grV/M in 22Hornet and the 17gr V/M in the HMR but i think the extra velocity "3.670ft/sec" causes a surface splash and dont penetrate for a flop .
The fact that i saw the hit tells me it splashed if i had been useng a HP i would not have seen that (i was using binoes at the time)
Wally

Yes Wally I have had 2 foxes walk off hit, one I picked up 100 yards away, hit in the throat, bled to death, the other a front on chest shot at about 80 yards off the truck wing mirror so as steady as it comes was never seen again, think I hit its breast bone. After that mangled fox pic you posted a few weeks ago using 25s I am pretty sure that is the way to go. Just got had the time or the foxes to check it out. Having said that foxy gets 20BR for choice, was going to try 25s on some cubs but this year I nailed the Vixen in April in a magpie trap.

A

[Alycidon]

Originally Posted by varmintshooter

Wally, I don't shoot all that many fox but the 20 gr Vmax has worked better than anything else for me. I am shooting a 17 fb at 4000 fps. Usually a small entrance and no exit. I tried 30 golds and 25gr hornady hp got pass thru's with both.

But Hornet is only driving 20s at 3500/3600, should not make a difference I would agree but 20gr VMAX from 17 Hornet is not authoritative on foxes compared to 20 cals and up. The only ones that have dropped on the spot without a twitch as per 20s etc have been close head shots.

A

[trotterlg]

I always think of the VMax as a squirrel bullet, but I guess you would need to recover one of those "splashes" to see what really happened.

[wally bennett]

My main quarry is rabbits or rabbits or rabbits sometimes a crow or magpie but fox is a quarry if it passes within range i dont very often go out for fox alone so i have always loaded with 20V/M cause that was all i cold get around here and if you travel 60 or so miles to get other types and dont have much money to buy in bulk its puts the price of shots up a lot.
My problem is lack of mobility i can walk about 30yds on a good day after that i am in pain so cant go looking in cover to find runners if i cant drive up to them i have lost them (Cheers for the Cherokee and Landy )
I now have a quantity of Bergers and Noisler HP,s (Thanks Mate fro up nprth) so the V/M are almost finished i have been using Noisler HPFB for a couple of years now and cant fault them they have enought penitrarion on fox its bang flop thud with them and clean kill on rabbit without meat damage.
I will be loading some 25gr Hornady HP,s soon i have about 150 0f them and the gun likes them but fox dont.
Not tried the 20 Bergers yet but loaded about 100 ready and wating for the V/Max to be used up so i can use the cases.
Wally

[Larry in VA]

Unless the bullet slips between the ribs or around breast plate (as in your case) those fragile heads will splash at 17AH speeds. I have one incident of me shooting a fox with my Cooper 17MkIV. At a tiny bit over 4K fps the 20gr VMax drilled a hole thru the rib and exploded just beyond that in the lung. I think the extra velocity pushed the bullet on thru before it had time to come-apart on the outside. I’m no expert but that seems logical to me.

I carry a couple of cartridges loaded 25gr HP’s in my shirt pocket and do a quick reload if I run across a fox or coyote.

[Daryl]

Thanks guys - good to know. My Pac-Nor puts the 25gr. Horn. HP's into the same group as 20gr. Vmax's- if same powder.
The Nosler 20gr. HP's and Tipped Varmegedons have thicker jackets so might do a little better.