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  #11  
Old 03-17-2009, 12:14 PM
Qaz Qaz is offline
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Doug, you are right with one little change. Even if you turn the XP in your example into a rifle, it is still a long barreled pistol. This is a huge grey area and although alot of people push it with the Contenders and Encores figureing they will never get caught, it only takes one law enforcment officer in a pissy mood that day to mess up the next few years for you and they do take a dim veiw of a short barreled rifle.
I was fortunate to speak to someone at the BATF at length about this subject and we both agreed on one thing; you are on thin ice that breaks real easy when you play with this rule!

I would always be uncomfortable with a bolt action pistol that wasn't produced at a factory as a pistol.

Qaz
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  #12  
Old 03-17-2009, 02:04 PM
montdoug montdoug is offline
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Qaz
From the discussion I had with a local FBI agent gun friend once right after I'd just gotten my Anschutz Exemplar 10 inch barreled handgun about this very topic, I'd have to say it's same-same with me.
He saw me shooting it at the range and we started talking. He's a fine and dedicated individual with an emphasis on dedicated (big time!). He's long time FBI but at the range he's just a shooter, of weapons and the bull with his friends.
In our discussion it came across to me that as he saw it, it's amazing just how ambiguous some of these "hard and fast... 3 to 5, at Lewisberg Federal" rules are and how as you say the ultimate interpretation and implementation is totally at the whim of the field officer you bump into and are his kids having problems at school and did his wife read him the riot act at breakfast this morning not 1/2 hour before he made your acquaintance and decided to focus on you as the object of all his life's discomfiture. Scary !!!

All that leaves me with you, that until I saw things clearly in writing on a piece of paper with a BTAF letterhead I could keep for my records I'd be terrible nervous with a non factory handgun (works of art though they are), with under an 18 inch barrel that didn't meet total overall length requirements.
My kids call me a "Nervous Jervis (thanks honey for teaching them that one "), my wife calls me high strung. I wonder what they called Randy Weaver?

I apologize in advance if that's to political.
pharmuse I'm still green over those fine weapons.
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  #13  
Old 03-17-2009, 08:19 PM
Ladobe Ladobe is offline
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Back already Joe. Decided I needed a break from the packing.

A good source for Sako models here is Chuck Miller, so maybe he'll chime in if I get something wrong since this will be from memory wth all my data already packed. The goal at the moment is to determine if yours was made by the same custom smith as mine.

Part of my confusion comes from how the actions are marked not knowing if Sako changed markings during the low production run of the PPC actions. Looks like your pistols action is marked "Sako PPC", while my pistol is marked "Sako A1" and my single-shot Sako heavy barrel PPC rifle is marked Sako .22PPC" (but is suppose to also be an A1 action). All three have the slanted cocking piece on the bolt so I assume they are all A1's. Important in that I was told the 32 + 5 custom pistols by these two smiths were all made from A1 PPC actions in the white (not from L-461, S491 or M75 PPC's).

Does your pistol have a safety?

Biggest clue will be the trigger group (assy). Does it look like it's reworked factory or completely custom bulit from scratch?

No doubt the stocks match and I do know who designed them.

Other differences between our pistols is not as critical if from the same smiths as many options were offered by them. Never saw one with a SS barrel before though. Mine has a tapered octagon blued barrel.

Anyway, I'll call you when I can.

BTW, below is a picture of my 6TCU with 100% fiddleback that was originally built for Robert Tedder (ID).

Larry

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  #14  
Old 03-17-2009, 09:20 PM
montdoug montdoug is offline
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Jeeze Larry, that's just wrong! And an octagon barrel too.
You guy's are hurting me, BAD.
Glad to see ya on the board.
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  #15  
Old 03-17-2009, 09:25 PM
Rbertalotto Rbertalotto is offline
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I've been around this tree a couple of time with the ATF............

"Once a rifle....Always a rifle" You can turn a rifle into a pistol, but it requires you to register it as a short rifle, pay fees and basically it isn't worth it.

As long as a receiver was shipped to an FFL without a designation (Rifle or pistol), it can be legally turned into anything (rifle or pistol) Many FFLs will do the transfer to you as a pistol, even though the receiver doesn't even have a barrel. The last action I bought, the FFL transfered it to me as a "Non Barreled Receiver" and then they wrote on the form "Intended to be used as a pistol" I thought this was strange, but it worked for me. Nothing ambiguous with this.

The problem with all of this is the fact that some "Factory" receivers are shipped to FFLs with actual "rifle" designation. Even though they are not barreled. I'm not sure where the paper trail of designation begins or ends.

The Thonpson issue is very risky. Thompson will sell Encore, Contender and G2 "Rifles"........Therefore they can never have a barrel attached shorter than 16".........But how do you know that the TC receiver you just bought at a pawn shop wasn't a muzzle loader in a previous life.........
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  #16  
Old 03-17-2009, 10:37 PM
pharmuse pharmuse is offline
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Default sako

The stocks are definantly the same right down to the "forend" inletting and the brass bushing/spacers where the screws go.

That is a beautiful firearm.
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  #17  
Old 03-17-2009, 11:25 PM
trotterlg trotterlg is offline
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Aside from some one telling you it is a pistol, how do you know it is a pistol and not a transformed rifle? I have also seen AR lowers that are stamped "Pistol Only" what is that about? Larry
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  #18  
Old 03-17-2009, 11:55 PM
MarinePMI MarinePMI is offline
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More importantly, why should the government even care?!?!?

Sorry, venting...
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  #19  
Old 03-18-2009, 12:04 AM
Mntngoat Mntngoat is offline
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Man move that bolt to the left side and I want 3! octagon barrel, 6mm TCU, fine wood, what could be better?

I've been lusting over Nesika NXP single shot pistol action since they came out, Just too scared to try and do business with Dakota.

ML
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  #20  
Old 03-18-2009, 12:18 AM
montdoug montdoug is offline
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I tried to do business with Dakota once...that would be once with a period.
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