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  #1  
Old 02-10-2017, 06:46 PM
montdoug montdoug is offline
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Default Need some help on the price of a CZ converted to .17 MachIV?

I have a buddy that discovered sub .22 cal's hanging around with me years back. He bought one of those CZ Varmint Laminate's with the stubby gray laminate stock. Greg Tannel converted it to .17 MachIV using a Pac-Nor 1 in 10 twist 3 groove barrel and cut some in-line dies using Wilson blanks and the same reamer he cut the chamber with.
The rifle hasn't been shot much at all and has rings but no optics.
I've never bought a used wildcat and I have no idea what a fair price on this critter is?? The rifle was purchased many years back when Greg's work was in a whole different price bracket. Also, while the short pull on that CZ fits him it sure doesn't fit me so it'll need a recoil pad added. Wish it was a 1 in 9 twist but it isn't . What do you wheeler dealers think is a good deal for us both? Thanks !!
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Old 02-10-2017, 08:40 PM
long shot long shot is offline
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In my experience with used guns, used custom wild cats do not bring good money. You have eliminated 80% of the shooting market because you have to hand load to be able to shoot it. When someone builds a custom it is their dream gun and not anybody elses, it will never be collectable and only depreciate with the more use it gets. You have 2 issues with it, You are not happy with the twist rate and it will need to be lengthened to fit you. Price wise, if he brought it to a gun shop to sell I would venture to say he would be offered 4-500. Retailed out at 7-800
If you found a happy medium with the seller I would think you should both be happy. JMO........

Aaron
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Last edited by long shot; 02-10-2017 at 08:47 PM.
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Old 02-10-2017, 09:55 PM
Hog Patrol Hog Patrol is offline
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My two cents, it's worth whatever the action and stock would bring. I'm with you on the twist, would prefer a 1-9.
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  #4  
Old 02-10-2017, 10:06 PM
Chuck Miller Chuck Miller is offline
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Default used wildcats

Good barometer is the value of the parts. Doesn't mean because the stock has no value to you that it's discounted, it can be sold. That's how I price what I sell. If it's a collectable like a vintage Sako, Pre64 Winnie, etc then it's a whole different deal. Once you get above cheap gun prices you start dealing with guys that can afford what they want, it's hard to piggyback all of your gunsmith labor in on a selling price and other than good dies the rest of the stuff is just stuff, it just doesn't play a big part of what I would pay. The 17FB has hurt prices on the 17MK4 for obvious reasons and those I've sold them to already had one. If I was buying it I would be a buyer around the 600-700 mark, after that I would rather build exactly what I want. I very seldom see a rifle for sale anywhere that is exactly like I would build so I would spend a little more to get what I want and this factors into what I would pay for someone else's build. I have a couple Gretan rifles but I don't look at them any differently than ones I have from Weaver, or Mike Bryant, or Don Starks(Stick) when it comes to quality of work and the end product. Each one of those smiths have their own groupies which may disagree. If the owner of this CZ is a friend of yours it might change your perception of the value to you?

This bit of wisdom is worth exactly what you paid for it.

PS, I've always put you into that Gretan Groupie category!

Last edited by Chuck Miller; 02-10-2017 at 10:12 PM.
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  #5  
Old 02-10-2017, 10:12 PM
Hippy Hippy is offline
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I was told MANY, Many Beers ago that anytime you buy a used "Kustom" you should figure the cost of rebarreling into the purchase price .
Much like anything "Kustom" it probably won't suit you or could be a bad shooter from the start

Good Luck

Jim
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  #6  
Old 02-11-2017, 12:06 AM
montdoug montdoug is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Miller View Post
Good barometer is the value of the parts. Doesn't mean because the stock has no value to you that it's discounted, it can be sold. That's how I price what I sell. If it's a collectable like a vintage Sako, Pre64 Winnie, etc then it's a whole different deal. Once you get above cheap gun prices you start dealing with guys that can afford what they want, it's hard to piggyback all of your gunsmith labor in on a selling price and other than good dies the rest of the stuff is just stuff, it just doesn't play a big part of what I would pay. The 17FB has hurt prices on the 17MK4 for obvious reasons and those I've sold them to already had one. If I was buying it I would be a buyer around the 600-700 mark, after that I would rather build exactly what I want. I very seldom see a rifle for sale anywhere that is exactly like I would build so I would spend a little more to get what I want and this factors into what I would pay for someone else's build. I have a couple Gretan rifles but I don't look at them any differently than ones I have from Weaver, or Mike Bryant, or Don Starks(Stick) when it comes to quality of work and the end product. Each one of those smiths have their own groupies which may disagree. If the owner of this CZ is a friend of yours it might change your perception of the value to you?

This bit of wisdom is worth exactly what you paid for it.

PS, I've always put you into that Gretan Groupie category!
Chuck, Greg has built a lot of my rifles and everyone of em has been a tack-driver! That said, when the rifle I'm talking about was new the dollar was real strong and my buddy paid about $600.00ish for the rifle (I was with him when he bought it), $335.00ish for the barrel and about $650.00ish for Greg's work. Got it back from Greg in about 6 or 8 weeks.
This spring when I was going to have a .20 Ackley Hornet built on a CZ 527 I called Greg and was told it'd take about a year and a half to complete, and a full overhaul would cost $1,795.00 . Put me down as a friend of Greg's that admires his work greatly but is no longer in the Gre'Tan Pay-Grade sad to say.
I sent the rifle and reamer to Pac-Nor who chambered a 1 in 12 twist Super Match 3 groove stainless and installed it "bedded" in the rifle for $785.00 including the barrel. It probably doesn't shoot as tiny a groups as a full on Gre'Tan rifle custom does but then neither do I . P-Doggies never knew the difference last summer and I never missed a one I felt I could fairly blame on the rifle .
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Old 02-11-2017, 01:48 AM
Bayou City Boy Bayou City Boy is offline
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I'm with Chuck as far as paying extra for a particular gunsmith's work goes. There are a lot of good smiths working today who can make rifles that are more accurate than most people are capable of shooting them. And everyone has their favorites.

Still, the true value of a rifle is in the value of the parts that are assembled, and in many cases you have to find someone who understands and appreciates the parts for what they are.

Of the smiths named, the only one that might pique my interest in a positive way if I was buying a smithed rifle from someone else would be Stick.................

JMO - BCB
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Last edited by Bayou City Boy; 02-11-2017 at 02:09 AM. Reason: verbage...............
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  #8  
Old 02-11-2017, 02:27 AM
Chuck Miller Chuck Miller is offline
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Default yow!

Eighteen months and $1,795.00 to chamber, install the barrel, and bed it? Hopefully that included the barrel and a new Leupold? When I hear of prices like that and year and a half lead times I wonder if they even want the business. Sounds like that machine and tool business has replaced his gunsmithing business.
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  #9  
Old 02-11-2017, 06:48 AM
montdoug montdoug is offline
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I didn't put that right Chuck, sorry. I just said "a full overhaul" but that includes a heck of a lot. He single points the action, double sleeves and bushes the bolt and a number of other things all aimed at improved accuracy. He also cuts whatever neck and throat you wish etc etc. There is a lot of labor involved in a full job by Greg and obviously a lotta guys think it's money well spent or his wait time wouldn't have grown to such lengths. Of course he's the only one doing the work so he doesn't have the "little helpers" a lot of smiths do to speed up the process, he does all his own work. I've never heard of an unhappy customer of his so he is definitely in the top shelf of smiths out there.
At my age however I don't have the time to wait nor does a complete job of his fit my budget anymore.
All that said the real question isn't which smith is best, just what would this rifle be worth as a rat smacker? Stubby stock and all I do know the thing is a one hole shooter so it's an absolute proven commodity to me and I know it's been well cared for and shot little, the guys a fanatic. I'm thinking the $700.00 number someone mentioned might be about right but I just don't deal in used guns much. Did I mention I have about 1,000 formed .17 MachIV cases and no .17 MachIV ??
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  #10  
Old 02-11-2017, 01:32 PM
pmg pmg is offline
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$700 sounds fair to me, you can always place a wtb ad for a CZ factory stock either wood or the HS one. I've surprisingly seen some of those ads payoff. Ive got one of those gre-tan rifles on a 788 in 20tac in a McMillan stock that I know I have more into it than I could ever get out of it, but I'll take it to the grave. As you know Mountdoug those 788s shoot very well rite outta the box. This is kinda a ploy to get you to show your 6x47L again. Sorry got a little off topic.
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