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  #11  
Old 04-16-2014, 12:27 AM
TinMan TinMan is offline
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+1 on Doug's comment. Use the shoulder and neck size only after fireforming, even in the standard Hornet.
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  #12  
Old 04-16-2014, 03:15 AM
montdoug montdoug is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jim saubier View Post
can't wait to get out there, save some for me. i will be there in a couple of weeks.
I will certainly save some but not so sure about that lady shooting partner of mine she see's gophers and she starts racking that bolt . Your safe for a while though Jim cause the weather thinks it's Fall instead of Spring again. We are under a "Winter Weather Advisory" tonight and tomorrow:

SNOW ACCUMULATIONS: TOTAL SNOW ACCUMULATIONS OF 2 TO 4 INCHES ARE EXPECTED FOR LOWER ELEVATIONS AND 5 TO 10 INCHES IN THE MOUNTAINS.

* WIND AND VISIBILITY: GUSTY NORTHWEST WINDS 15 TO 25 MPH WILL DIMINISH THIS EVENING. VISIBILITIES WILL BE REDUCED TO LESS THAN ONE HALF MILE AT TIMES.

We are the lower elevations by the way. She's a gopher killing machine Jim but 25MPH blizzards really knocks her off her game plan and make her think about reading a good book. They are safe for a while Amigo but hurry up before the weather breaks .
We're both really looking forward to your arrival but we'll wait to hear from ya.
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  #13  
Old 04-16-2014, 03:40 AM
Bill K Bill K is offline
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Originally Posted by sgtg View Post
I have had great luck fire forming 17 hh from WW brass, now I have a bunch of Prvi Partizan 22 H to FF to 17 HH. Do you folks shoot off the rim or the shoulder?? I have been shooting off the rim but I'm thinking it might be better to use the shoulder, any thoughts on this ?? Thanks sgtg out
PS; montdoug I think the 17 HH would be the perfect sage rat gun, I have 200 to fireform that is a good reason to make an Idaho run. I love this site, spending and travel mentors. Thanks sgtg out
After fire forming to your rifle, if you can do so and stay with the same brass/rifle, I would say just neck size. That is what I try to do on all my weapons. You will have fewer, if any problems that way. Bill K
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  #14  
Old 04-16-2014, 02:30 PM
Daryl Daryl is offline
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Considering the difference in case lengths - I do not recall mention of trimming prior to fire forming in this thead - maybe I missed it?
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  #15  
Old 04-16-2014, 03:39 PM
montdoug montdoug is offline
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I didn't go into the process of setting up the cases Daryl and you are certainly right that they do need trimmed before fire-forming (quite a bit actually). After being taken down to .17 and ready for fire-forming I've found that the trim length that finishes best for me after firing is 1.337. 1.340 is the max case length and the trim to length is 1.330, keeping in mind I have formed all these with already fired brass there is a little shortening on forming but not as much as if it were new unfired for sure. After forming I'm ending up at 1.334 or 1.335ish. After they are all formed I'll trim the lot to 1.332 and as you know with neck sizing only of multiple times fired brass I probably won't have to trim em again in the foreseeable future , that's the kind of trimming I like best.
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  #16  
Old 04-17-2014, 07:31 PM
montdoug montdoug is offline
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Daryl I forgot to add two things about trimming the unformed cases. First thing is that the initial case shortening was done with a chop saw. Second is, if you use a Wilson trimmer like I do you need to use a .22 Hornet case holder on the finish trimming after the cutting cause before firing the back half of that brass is still .22 Hornet.
Easy process really and well worth the effort. Not sure where I'll end up with the velocity in a formed case (don't much care either) but I do have 1/5 grain more capacity in the formed WW cases than I get in the Factory fired cases. I have a hunch it'll be to close to the .17 Ackley Hornet to tell a difference shooting it.
I sure like this little critter , wish Hornady wasn't having all the problems with the factory brass, makes is awful hard on the non reloader and it's sure putting a wet blanket on a neat little round . I'm sure the brass and ammo situation will eventually be resolved but the window of opportunity on new rounds doesn't stay open very long.
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  #17  
Old 04-17-2014, 07:53 PM
Bayou City Boy Bayou City Boy is offline
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As for trimming, I looked at the normal cartridge length which is 1.350" for the 17 HH and the trim to length which is 1.340".

I considered trimming to 1.350" and then fire forming but like Doug found the formed cases came out shorter than the minimum spec. This is just me but I hate shooting short brass in a chamber.

As a result I went with 1.355" which still chambered easily in my rifle (which maybe says something about the normal 17HH chamber length in a CZ as well as just about any other factory rifle chamber) and found that the five cases I formed went from 1.355" to 1.344" to 1.346" which fell right in between the SAAMI min and max lengths for the cartridge.

I'm not saying one way is right and another is wrong. That's just how things worked out for me using a semi-educated guess, but I fully expected similar results based on the fact that considerable changes was going to occur to the cartridge.

-BCB
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  #18  
Old 04-17-2014, 09:34 PM
montdoug montdoug is offline
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BCB I think as new as this round is the standards are different depending on who ya talk to and where ya read . In Westerns loading manual (which is where I got my info) they say the case has a maximum length of 1.340 and a trim to length of 1.330. I just called Hornady and talked to a tech and the one I got today stated the max length is 1.350 like you said and a trim to length of 1.340 which is the max length in the Western manual ! Maybe I'll call em tomorrow and see what that guy will say .
I too like as much neck as I can have. Time to measure it myself in my gun I guess, it's tough being lazy .
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  #19  
Old 04-17-2014, 09:48 PM
Bayou City Boy Bayou City Boy is offline
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Being old like you, I understand lazy, Doug.............

I had picked up a new copy of the Hornady #9 Manual last week and it shows 1.350"/1.340" in it. That's what I used as my source. Since it's in print, maybe all of the phone techs will be on the same page...

I haven't looked at SAAMI specs to see if they agree or not. I do know my CZ will easily chamber 1.355" brass from my playing yesterday, so using that old TexMex expression we're both familiar with: Quien sabe...?

-BCB
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I miss mean Tweets, competence, and $1.79 per gallon gasoline.

Yo no creo en santos que orinan.

Women and cats will do as they please. Men and dogs should relax and just get used to the idea.

Going keyboard postal over something that you read on the internet is like seeing a pile of dog crap on the sidewalk and choosing to step in it rather than stepping around it.

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  #20  
Old 04-17-2014, 10:17 PM
montdoug montdoug is offline
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"Nadie me imagino" BCB .
I wish I hadn't formed trimmed and loaded all my brass cause I'd like to see at what point the case length actually impinges on the bullet release. Oh well, one thing is for sure, I'll sure not have to trim brass in the life of that batch . On the serious side, the stuff I formed and fired is longer than Westerns minimum by about half way to their max and only a few thou under Hornady's minimum so even though it bugs me I'm sure it'll work fine.
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