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  #11  
Old 10-31-2014, 02:59 AM
Bayou City Boy Bayou City Boy is offline
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If you want to look at it in parentage terms as to which of the .378" case head cartridges came first, that's fine. Using that criteria, all of the other .378" cartridge cases are the "children" of the parent 222 Remington, which was the first .378" American cartridge.

However, in practical terms, the truth of the matter is that no matter how hard you try, you physically will never make a full length 17 Remington case (1.796") from a shorter 223 Remington case (1.760")

Originally, in 1971, the 17 Remington case was designed off of and directly made from 222 Rem Mag cases which are still available today on a seasonal basis. (I know for a fact that the brass is still available since I own own two 222 Rem Mag rifles that I can still get brass for seasonally as Remington turns it out. I bought 200 rounds of it new in the Remington packages last spring that a local gun shop had ordered even though I really didn't need it. He originally had 600 rounds of it)

And yes.many ill-informed publications have clearly stated in print that the 223 Rem is the parent of the 17 Rem. That is not true from the concept of physically making one cartridge from the other, and it simply shows that wrong information is not just a product of the internet.... BS also appears in written print at times, and it often gets repeated just like it does on the internet.

Today, some folks are going to the trouble of making 17 Remington brass from 204 Ruger brass which is also a physical possibility. I bought a 204 Ruger rifle before factory ammo or brass were available, and I easily made 50 rounds of 204 Ruger brass from 222 Rem Mag brass. If I had used 223 Rem cases instead, I'd have ended up with short 204 Ruger cases just like you do when you try to make 17 Remington cases from 223 Remington cases.

-BCB
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  #12  
Old 10-31-2014, 11:56 AM
long shot long shot is offline
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Something to think about............ The 17 Rem. case is a 52,000 cup rated case while the 222 Rem. mag is a 50,000 cup rated case. I believe it was Silver fox that did a little write up about making 17 Rems from 222 Mag. and there was a significant difference in case capacity which resulted in popped primers. Just a word of caution............

Aaron
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  #13  
Old 10-31-2014, 01:27 PM
Bayou City Boy Bayou City Boy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by long shot View Post
Something to think about............ The 17 Rem. case is a 52,000 cup rated case while the 222 Rem. mag is a 50,000 cup rated case. I believe it was Silver fox that did a little write up about making 17 Rems from 222 Mag. and there was a significant difference in case capacity which resulted in popped primers. Just a word of caution............

Aaron
Anytime that you create cartridge X from cartridge Y, you need to be aware of possible pressure issues resulting from various sources. Even something relatively simple such as making cartridge X from two different brands of cartridge Y can cause a pressure issue in one situation that doesn't exist in another. And resulting brass might be perfectly safe in one rifle but not in another rifle with "identical in type" chambers.

Wildcatting and cartridge making has never been a "one size fits all" situation, and pressure is a concern any time that you play the game no matter what size cartridges you're playing with. You're just more likely to see it in small capacity, quick high pressure excursion (reaching the high peak pressure curve relatively quickly) types of cartridges, largely due to the relatively faster powders used in the smaller cases.

The rule of working up a load from a safe starting point is always paramount, even with unaltered factory brass in a factor chamber. The internet with its capability of a rapid flow of information to many folks very quickly has created a reloading culture among newer reloaders that sometimes assume that an accurate max or even max+ charge in Mr. Smith's rifle on Forum Z should work in my rifle too, so why worry about pressure. Pressure is what makes the bullet go fast, but it can also destroy a perfectly good rifle if it's not understood and respected.

-BCB
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  #14  
Old 11-01-2014, 04:16 AM
Silverfox Silverfox is offline
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long shot--I have to make a couple of corrections in regard to your post where you typed:

Quote:
I believe it was Silver fox that did a little write up about making 17 Rems from 222 Mag. and there was a significant difference in case capacity which resulted in popped primers.
  1. Old Silverfox did use .222 Rem Mag casings to make a few .17 Remington casings but he NEVER fired any of those casings. As a matter of fact, I loaded a couple of those casings with some .20 gr. Nosler SHOT bullets and they still sit, unfired, down in my reloading room.
  2. Old Silverfox actually used WW .204 Ruger casings and formed .17 Remington casings from those.
  3. You are right about the casing capacity of the newly formed casings being a bit less than the factory .17 Remington casings. However, you are way off base in stating that I popped primers. The shoulders on the primers was not as round as it should have been, but there were no popped or pierced primers.
  4. I did, however use .222 Rem Mag casings to form .204 Ruger casings and had absolutely no problems with those newly formed casings.

I hope that clears up any misconceptions about what I did or did not form from the .222 Rem Mag casings and whether I had popped or pierced primers with any loads using .222 Rem Mag casings or .17 Rem casings formed from WW .204 Ruger casings.
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  #15  
Old 11-01-2014, 06:31 AM
ab_bentley ab_bentley is offline
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http://www.highplainsbrass.com/17-Re...17-remcase.htm


I'd like to know where they got the extra length from.....


Adam
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  #16  
Old 11-01-2014, 01:00 PM
long shot long shot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverfox View Post
long shot--I have to make a couple of corrections in regard to your post where you typed:


  1. Old Silverfox did use .222 Rem Mag casings to make a few .17 Remington casings but he NEVER fired any of those casings. As a matter of fact, I loaded a couple of those casings with some .20 gr. Nosler SHOT bullets and they still sit, unfired, down in my reloading room.
  2. Old Silverfox actually used WW .204 Ruger casings and formed .17 Remington casings from those.
  3. You are right about the casing capacity of the newly formed casings being a bit less than the factory .17 Remington casings. However, you are way off base in stating that I popped primers. The shoulders on the primers was not as round as it should have been, but there were no popped or pierced primers.
  4. I did, however use .222 Rem Mag casings to form .204 Ruger casings and had absolutely no problems with those newly formed casings.

I hope that clears up any misconceptions about what I did or did not form from the .222 Rem Mag casings and whether I had popped or pierced primers with any loads using .222 Rem Mag casings or .17 Rem casings formed from WW .204 Ruger casings.
My apologies silver fox.......... memory is not what it used to be. I Should have asked you to chime in on your experience. Did not intend to throw you under the bus, just wanted to air a bit of caution when "making casings".

Aaron
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  #17  
Old 11-01-2014, 02:13 PM
MIBULLETS MIBULLETS is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ab_bentley View Post
http://www.highplainsbrass.com/17-Re...17-remcase.htm


I'd like to know where they got the extra length from.....


Adam
Good question. It is possible that the brass lengthens slightly from the necking down process but that is quite a bit. The extra has to go somewhere and it isn't all in a thicker neck wall.
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  #18  
Old 11-01-2014, 05:24 PM
Daryl Daryl is offline
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Usually gets shorter, in necking down or necking up.
When I made 9.3x62 and .375/06IMP out of .30/06 hulls, they reduced in length.

When I made my .17AH's out of .22 Hornets, they reduced in length.

Now, part of all of this shortening, might be tied to the case body expanding process, or not.
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  #19  
Old 11-01-2014, 06:37 PM
MIBULLETS MIBULLETS is offline
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Necking up definately shortens the brass, but in the case of your 17 AH you are also blowing out the shoulder and reducing case taper which shortens the brass.
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  #20  
Old 11-02-2014, 01:59 PM
coyotespotter coyotespotter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ab_bentley View Post
http://www.highplainsbrass.com/17-Re...17-remcase.htm


I'd like to know where they got the extra length from.....


Adam
I have used these they shoot very well, shoulder a little wavey before first firing.
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