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Old 10-31-2014, 08:45 PM
montdoug montdoug is offline
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Default Older IMR powders, older soft point bullets. Cheap ole 788. Yeah, they still do ok!

Recently there was a thread about the new Polymer tipped projectiles compared to the older type soft point Spitzer lead tipped type bullets, good question.
There is currently a thread on the "Small Caliber Load Data" forum on the "new" IMR powders and I had to wonder about how they compared to the older IMR powders?? More good questions.
Being retired with nothing to do and having all day to do it in I took to cogitating on these two issues as it pertains to all the rifles there in the very back of my gun safe that I haven't shot in years. Also, how bout those loads worked up for those rifles years back before small caliber madness totally consumed my shooting interests ? One of the rifles that perfectly fit both thread topics and the ever popular question about how well does older ammo do? is a 788 Remington in .22-250 that is currently on it's 3rd barrel. Yupper, shot through a factory barrel many years back so at that time the lugs were lapped, it was bedded and a McGowen barrel was installed. Many thousands of rounds later as the groups started expanding it had a Wiseman barrel installed that it still wears and has been saved from being used much by my developing an incurable affliction for sub.22 caliber rifles. It wears a Vari X II 4X12 with the top-hat style target turrets added.
With the conversations on those threads in mind I dug that 788 out of the back row of the safe and grabbed a box of ammo I loaded in 2003 and lit out for the range.
Weight segregated, primer pockets uniformed, flash holes reamed, Winchester brass.
36 grains of good ole IMR 4895 which is half grain off of IMR's max load in their on-line data. CCI200 primers.
Shooting moly coated Sierra 55 grain Spitzer Boat Tail's model #1365 (old school load to be sure). As a side note that load chrono'd 3,720ish FPS, when it was loaded it back in 03 and clocked within very few FPS of that as it turned out now on a 30 degree cooler day.
I shot a couple rounds to foul it and then with a fairly stiff left to right breeze I fired this 3 shot weather report.



Looking through the spotting scope I saw two holes and not seeing the third I looked down the bore and then decided to walk up to check things out before shooting further in case there was a problem. In the scope one round was missing and it made me a bit nervous. When I got up there and saw this group I decided to leave it at three shots and took to shooting at a few things in the berms at longer distance, no sense burning up this barrel any sooner than necessary. Shoots just like it did all those years it was my primary varmint slayer .
I guess for me at least this answers the questions posed in those two other threads about the older powders (IMR4895 here), older style Spitzer Soft Point Boat Tails projectiles (Sierra 55 grain BTSP's), and also the effect of using long ago reloaded ammo that was talked about in another thread a bit back. Also it confirms what us 788 fans have known for many years about how well those cheap old 788's really shoot for a $100.00 rifle .
Just a minor test to make sure that the old rifles and components can perform as well as an old guy like me remembers them shooting. That group mic's a .392 by the way and is a good group for that old rifle but not unusual.
Probably a real boring topic but it interested me and I figured I'd share it.
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  #2  
Old 10-31-2014, 09:11 PM
Bill K Bill K is offline
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Default Older sofe point bullets. Old 788.

Oldies but goodies still can rule. Enjoyed your story/information. Bill K
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  #3  
Old 10-31-2014, 09:25 PM
mulepasture mulepasture is offline
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Default Old guys (and guns) rule

Here in a few weeks I will trot out my 1970-71 or so model 700 in .243 and dispatch a whitetail or two or perhaps a few more hogs. Widely know in my circles as "Radar" the only falling out we've ever had was when she fell (bolt open and unloaded) butt first from a ladder stand. Jarred the K-4 a smidge and required readjustment to get back to Radar status…Lives on the front row in the safe. Lots of memories and witnessed miraculous (remember..K-4, surprised me and I was behind the trigger, Lol) shots.
I can relate and enjoyed your range report.
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Old 10-31-2014, 09:41 PM
ramos ramos is offline
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Nice post, Doug. Just because something 'new' comes out, it doesn't mean the old and proven stops working. The Nosler partition big game bullets have remained unchanged for how long? First deer I killed with one would have been in the late '70s. We killed two more with them in two different rifles just a few weeks ago. Same excellent performance, year after year, regardless of what new offerings came out yesterday!
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Old 10-31-2014, 11:26 PM
Gerald D. Gerald D. is offline
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With a safe full of newer/better rifles the old 788 in .243 still gets the nod about 50% of the time.



Shooting like this with Fed. 100 gr Blue box is why. Best $98 bucks I ever spent on a rifle.
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Old 10-31-2014, 11:57 PM
hemiallen hemiallen is offline
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Good shooting.

But, to be fair to the original question, do you have any ammunition for that gun loaded with Poly tipped bullets? I would hope that newer poly tipped bullets would be more accurate, if the load is developed, due to modern manufacturing abilities, but my old, semi-retired early rem 700 ( bolt locking safety that I bought on my wedding day) does shoot the sierra 52 BTHP bullets around 0.5-0.7" 5 shot groups, last we shot her. Come to think about it, she hasn't seen a poly tipped bullet.

Being recently retired, I can only wish for the day I can do as you did, wake up and have a cup or 2 of coffee, pick a rifle out of the safe and go have fun with it. Maybe by next spring, LOL. Life is good!

Allen
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Old 11-01-2014, 03:17 AM
Teancum1 Teancum1 is offline
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Default Impressive

Of all the comments on this thread so far, I am most impressed that hemiallen got to buy a rifle on his wedding day and live to tell the tale!

Last edited by Teancum1; 11-01-2014 at 03:18 AM. Reason: special characters didn't print
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  #8  
Old 11-01-2014, 11:42 AM
toolman47327 toolman47327 is offline
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Default Thanks Doug

Thanks for the pics and story Doug.
I still have .222 ammo I loaded in the 90's, Sierra 50 gr Blitz over BLC-2 and CCI 400. Did not set any speed records but shot superbly. Like Allen I am curious as to the results of comparing the polymer tipped and lead spire points side by side.
Tom
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  #9  
Old 11-01-2014, 03:51 PM
hemiallen hemiallen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teancum1 View Post
Of all the comments on this thread so far, I am most impressed that hemiallen got to buy a rifle on his wedding day and live to tell the tale!
LOL

And I am hosting a family gathering this afternoon and was just "asked" to clear all my gun stuff out of the diningroom, put my guns in the vault, etc.LOL

I have the distinction of shooting ground squirrels back when lead tipped SX bullets were the rage, but only about 200 kills. Then came 10+ years of no squirrel shooting, and getting back in the game the most available bullets are poly tipped. So my recollection of how the SX bullets performed compared to my current memory of Vmax type make it hard to come to my own conclusion, besides the targets are now smaller Beldings ground squirrels, or SKIPPY as a good friend likes to call them, but I do know Skippy has great hangtime using poly tipped bullets, especially if they are laying flat on the ground. They get lift, while the standing targets seem to get horizontal movement, ie more sideways and less lift.

And yes, I still have the "wedding day" rifle.

Thanks again for the post, I do have some old ammo for my old gun....just wished the gun was in my vault and not my sons....

Allen
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  #10  
Old 11-01-2014, 05:22 PM
Daryl Daryl is offline
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Well, Dang it Doug - now I'm going to have to get a box of 55gr. Sierras - already got lots of 3031 - I'll have to give the combo a whirl in this new Remington 700. It sure likes 62gr. Nosler HP's, W760 or IMR4064 and 50gr. TSX with IMR4064 now.
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