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  #11  
Old 03-24-2009, 04:48 PM
trotterlg trotterlg is offline
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Whatever you make I think it needs to be cheap. Something someone will buy knowing that the continued production of ammunition is in question. The Remington 59X rifles were not cheap at the time, they were built on a very nice action but failed to get the number of rifles produced to support the ammunition production. I would be far more inclined to buy a new 5MM RF if it were in the $200.00 dollar range than if it were $600.00, at the $200.00 mark you can just walk away from it if things go bad. Larry
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  #12  
Old 03-24-2009, 05:22 PM
MarinePMI MarinePMI is offline
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Larry,

I have to respectfully disagree on the comparison. Yes, the 591 was expensive, as was the ammo when introduced. However, that being said, today the market has rifles that have no supply of ammo, so I don't think you're going to see the ammo just stop being made. Right now, they can't make enough of it, and have a corner on the market. As long as the remaining original rifles remain functional (of which roughly 52,000 were made) the ammo will continue to be demanded, and therefore the ammo made.

Another distinction is the change in the market trends, along with shrinking hunting areas and the overall improved education of shooters today. Today you find consumers who understand the value and limitations of the various cartridges on the market (in large part due to the internet and boards such as this one), and are not of the older mind set of "I only need one rimfire rifle". On the contrary, most shooters these days are of the mindset to have a rifle specifically tailored for a specific hunting situation, and are willing (generally speaking) to pay for that particular proverbial club in their gun golf bag. What that price point is, is (IMHO) determined not by the competition of low priced rimfire rifles, but what a specialized, accurate, solid rifle of good manufacture costs. Hence my opinion that it (the price point) needs to be about $100-150 more than a standard production CZ, which has the reputation of a quality firearm that is not out of the reach of "Joe Lunchbox".

I have always been of the opinion that something that comes cheap is rarely appreciated or valued, so perhaps that affects my views...

Again, not saying your wrong, just trying to politely disagree and express a different view on the issue.

v/r
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  #13  
Old 03-24-2009, 06:20 PM
pharmuse pharmuse is offline
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I heard Ed's T/C has/had some of the 5mm Rifle contender barrels. I've had my 14" contender On Target Tech 5mm Rem barrel for several years now and haven't reloaded a single round for it since the new rimfire ammo came out. I'd like to try one in a rifle barrel but the pistol shoots so good I see no need for a longer tube. 150 yd shots are the norm rather than the exception.

I need to get some better pics.
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  #14  
Old 03-24-2009, 06:35 PM
trotterlg trotterlg is offline
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The successful rifles with no ammo avaliable aren't rimfires, with a RF if the ammo goes away then you either convert it to CF or park it. If there wasn't the ammo sales when the 59X's were new to support production then I would guess, without new production rifles, production will not be sustainable. I hope it stays, but new production rifles selling in quanity in the mass market is what is needed I think. I don't think an expensive rifle will get the number of sales to make a difference in the ammo sales, I don't see a market for 52,000 $700.00 5mm RF rifles right now. The ammo makes need to pay H&R or Rossi to chamber a barrel in it. Larry
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  #15  
Old 03-24-2009, 07:19 PM
A17Shooter A17Shooter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry in VA View Post
Personally; I think a little 1885 Low Wall configuration would be the "cats meow". Blued w/walnut stock or stainless w/grey laminated stock, just make the forearm hanger large enough to securely support/hold the forearm all on its own. I'd buy one in a heart beat and in every caliber you could chamber it for. The world needs more falling blocks that working men can afford.

I like this idea. I wouldn't buy one of each caliber. But one 17AH would be a good bet.
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  #16  
Old 03-24-2009, 07:20 PM
MarinePMI MarinePMI is offline
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Larry,

That's eactly my point. As long as there are rifles (which there are) there will be a demand for ammo, and a profit to be made for those tooled up to produce it. Therefore, as long as the ammo is available, any new rifle manufacaturer made have less risk, and if anything, drive the continuing market for the ammo. Kind of a chicken and egg thing...
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  #17  
Old 03-24-2009, 10:45 PM
fat cat fat cat is offline
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Default 5mm

Yes, but where are those new rifles? Its been somtime since this new ammo has been out. And why hasnt CCI even trid to make ammo for the 5mm? There is something going on about the old 5mm ammo and the 5mm rifles thats keeping CCI from making ammo I just can't put my finger on it! ~Fat
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  #18  
Old 03-25-2009, 12:44 AM
Eagle_view Eagle_view is offline
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Fat_Cat,

I think that you will find that the old Remington Ammo was right that the pressure limit of the Brass used and the way Remington formed it.

MarinePMI points out in this thread that the new ammo has thicker and stonger brass and better powder. I think the other ammo makers are waiting to see if problems arise with this new stuff like it did with the Remington ammo.

When you look at the 591-592 action you can see that Remington went to a lot of effort to contain the pressure and totally enclose the cartridge in steel. That action is very unusual in the way it is built, Double extractors and all.

If the Rimfire had a solid rim like the centerfires 5 MM Craig it would be much easier and cheaper to build an action.

Lowell
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  #19  
Old 03-25-2009, 12:53 AM
fat cat fat cat is offline
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Default 5mm

Good enough. Thanks Lowell. `FaTTY
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  #20  
Old 03-25-2009, 01:26 AM
trotterlg trotterlg is offline
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Even using the new ammo, the only way I could get the H&R action to work was to chamber the barrel with the ejector in place. This then allowed the ejector to support the case and not allow the brass to deform preventing the ejector from working. Took me more than one try to figure out how to do it. Without using a break open design with an ejector that can support the case I think any bolt type of design will be difficult. I vote for a falling block. Larry
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