22 Hornet to 17 Hornet

[Trigger1212]

Got my 22 hornet brass and bull bury but cannot find the dimention (length) from the base of case to base of shoulder. Remember seeing a case dimention greasing in a shooting times article by layne Simpson but now cannot find the dang thing. Thought I had it made when Tillman put the reamer drawing up there but that dimention not listed as far as I can see. Length I'm lookin for is from the bolt face to the base of the neck. Any help out there? Thanks!

[Trigger1212]

Slight clarification, as satiated looking for length from base of case to shoulder/neck junction so I know how far to fun the bull berry down during forming. I have redding s type 17 HH dies and comp sweater so will use s type for final form step. Just need to know haw far to push the .20 shoulder down. Thanks!

[Tilleyman]

Check the comparison drawings:
http://www.realguns.com/articles/445.htm

The dimension from bolt face to base of the neck (according to that article anyway) is rim .065" + 1.1540" = 1.219"

[Jingle]

I trimmed my cases 1.350 but I will do the rest 1.355

Trigger,

I just ran the .22 hornet case in the Bullberry die 3/16 by feel and looking and the Hornady FLS die did the rest if that helps?

But Tilley mentioned to skip the .17 side of the Bullberry and I did and it makes for smooth sizing because of the expander it seems?

[Tilleyman]

Fireformed a few Sellier & Bellot cases at the range, then sectioned one just to see how they stack up.

What was really interesting was the powder impact marks at the beginning of the shoulder angle. In the first few milliseconds of ignition, the powder column must move down the case as a plug driven by the gas forming at the primer... you could see distinct nicks where the kernels had impacted the brass at high speed before they were burned up as the bullet moved into the leade and down the barrel. This has to be affecting the burn characteristic of the powders suitable for the relatively straight-walled Hornet case.

As a few have pointed out there are a great deal of similarities between S&B and Hornady 17 Hornet brass... differences lie in the thickness of the web and the size of the flash hole. S&B brass has a web thickness in between Hornady and Privi.

I had to drill out all 10 flash holes and uniform the pockets (but often the cutter would not even touch the base of the pocket as it cupped away) rim thicknesses varied a LOT... as expected some were quite difficult to chamber.

The brass is quite soft, I did neck anneal all except one as a test... the un-annealed case fireformed quite well without splitting.
However it did not form as crisp shoulders as the annealed brass.

Overall, if you can be bothered to drill out all the flash holes (preferably in a lathe as many are off-centre) and prep the primer pockets AND sort for excessive rim thickness it is an alternative for reforming to 17 Hornet if there's nothing else

[Dean2]

Originally Posted by Trigger1212

Slight clarification, as satiated looking for length from base of case to shoulder/neck junction so I know how far to fun the bull berry down during forming. I have redding s type 17 HH dies and comp sweater so will use s type for final form step. Just need to know haw far to push the .20 shoulder down. Thanks!

With the type S Redding die you don't need the Bullberry form die at all. Just order a 20 calibre bushing, I use a .226, and use that for the first step and when forming brass I use the Hornady FL die to finish forming the neck and shoulder. FL or Neck it will push the shoulder to the right place. Once they are fire formed I then replace the bushing with a .192 and use it for neck sizing the brass so I don't over work the brass, the factory Hornady sizes the brass all the way down to .188 and the expander ball opens it back up to .190. Considering a loaded round is .1945, that is a hell of a lot of necck tension and far more working of the brass than is required.

The Privi brass formed very well, and I as I posted elsewhere I did not anneal after sizing. All formed fine with no splits. I did clean up the vent hole on the Hornady sizing die and that got rid of the scratch that was showing up on the brass.

I have a fair amount of Privi brass from fired Hornet ammo but I cannot buy bulk Privi brass here in Canada so decided to try some Winchester brass as there is lots of it available. I formed 25 Winchester brass to try and see how they work out. They were new unfired and the brass is definitely softer than the Privi brass. I had to be very careful on the alignment going into the 17 FB S dies with the .226, 20 calibre bushing in it or I would crush the mouth. Once through that die they went through the Hornady FL die just fine. I won't anneal these brass either, just to see what I get.

[Jingle]

Dean,

if you don't mind me asking? How did you clean up the Hornady die from scratching as mine does that as well. It makes a tiny scratch from just below the neck mouth down to the new shoulder..

[Dean2]

I took a domed nose grinder head from my Dremel set and used it by hand to work the sharp point of steel away and used an old steel dental pick to feel for the opening and when I had it completely smoothed out. I thought about using the Dremel on real slow speed but I didn't want to take to much off.

I then used some fine scope lapping compound on the body, neck and shoulder of a formed case, then a resized case chucked in my cordless drill to final polish the inside but they don't go in far enough to do the shoulder junction. So to polish that I used a Q-Tip with a fine steel wool layer and lapping compound seemed to actually work pretty good for the shoulder area.

The tiny metal tit left over from by drilling the air hole is what is causing the scratch. I have heard of this on lots of Hornady 17 H dies. Between the issues with their brass and this I am way less than impressed with Hornady quality of late.

[Jingle]

Geeeeez Dean, I think I'm impressed with your method of smoothing it out than anything...

I didn't realize you could sand/polish the die. I do have rubbing compound and 2000/1500 grit wet sand paper so maybe I'll try to correct mine as well. I wonder if I keep running one case through it over and over if it will smooth it over?

One thing I can say about Hornady is I have learned alot in a short amount of time because of the .17 hornet and lack of brass etc...

[Jingle]

Tilley,

On my bench are 10 beautiful annealed .22 hornet cases sized down to .20 then straight to the 17HH FLS die as you suggest and works fine! The only issue I have is that dreaded tiny scratch that I smoothed down a bit but is still there, I really can't see it harming anything?

I annealed a few crushed cases for practice but it looks like anything beyond the 10 second range starts to turn red although mine do look a hint of blue at 7 seconds so for my first attempt I'm going with it...

Before annealing I trimmed my cases a bit more than a tad over 34mm with a pocket caliper as my dial caliper is broken, do you think it should be ok? I checked to see if the cases would feed into my CZ527 and I did have to bump the shoulders back on a few.

If I load from my Hornady #9 manual with a starting load and a 25 gr vmax I should be ok right?

I can use either H4198 or AA1680 but only have 25gr vmax and HP.

Not to be redundant but thank you again for your knowledge as I have learned alot in a short time with guidance in this thread. I will admit I did ruin 5 cases getting use to the sizing process but in my defense I've never did it before