Just how bad is 1/8" freebore in a 20tac barrel?

[sicero]

Ed, Were there any detectable thumb prints on his neck? Kenny

[JoeZ]

If it is a PTG reamer, I bet Dave will fix it up. He has been real good to me on the reamers I have bought. Most gunsmiths are shooters first. The put food on their tables on their reps, so he might rechamber the barrel for next to nothing. If he is close to you he might do it for a 6 pack. Hopefully he likes cheap beer and not single malt.

Let him know your delema see what he can do. While waiting for the situation to get sorted out, shoot it like you stole it. You have to break that barrel anyway. The set back is not going to be much at all. nothing but the throat is going to change so you can get an idea of what powders it likes, get some brass formed and get a few thou of free throat to play with. PIA I know but you can turn a sows ear into a silk purse here pretty easy. Next 10 builds might be beyond your expectations. #11 might be as f-ed up as a football bat. Took me awhile to swallow but no matter whos stuff gets used or who puts it together a turd will float to the top from time to time.

BTW I was not being a smart a$$ in any way shape or form on my posts. I can see my clunker from my computer and was having flash backs. I got my fingers crossed for you it is short brass.

[georgeld]

When I was just a 14y/o kid. Took an old '17 Enfield to a local 'smith to mount a K4 on. When Dad and I went to zero it. Couldn't hit a thing, moved the box to about 25yds and still was all over the place. He shot it and the same thing. Then one shot he watched the gun when I fired and the scope jumped in the air enough he saw daylight under it.

Turned out the a/h had broken a tap off and left it that way. When I went back his basement shop was full of guys waiting their turn getting ready for hunting season.
He tried to snow me into leaving the gun but, even then I was full of a$$ kicking notions and mouthed off at him: "you fix this sob now, you had it a month and broke a tap off and left it that way!" The place had no less than ten others when I got there it emptied out within a couple minutes to just me and him. Year later he had closed it down, couple yrs later he died.

Anyone can screw up. It's what they do next that counts.

[Centerfire]

George,

First thing I'll do is see what kinda groups .1" bullet jump produces. If I get 1/2" groups, then I'll still be wondering if I could have gotten 1/4" groups instead. Hopefully I'll get my sub 1/2" groups and be happy with a feeling of no harm done. Some how I doubt I'll get that kind of acuracy though.....and I'll want to pursue correcting the problem.

IF THERE IS A PROBLEM CAUSED BY THIS .1" GAP, I will go about the problem differently then the story you described. First off, It's been a little over a year since I had the reamer made, and the barrel smithed. Most folks don't want to hear complaints over a year later. I also found it's usually easier to try to explain things civily. I try to politely convey in a subtle manner, the message that I got screwed...without making demands. Any guy worth their salt will normally try to make the accomodations for the customer to save face. If these guys were questionable, or I knew nothing about their skills and the way they conduct ther business, then I wouldn't have gotten involved with them in the first place. I then leave it up to them how they wish to treat me. Folks do make mistakes.... and unless it is gross negligence, or incompetence (like for example, the bore being off center, or the rifle returned to me all boogered up) I try to be passive. I'm not a young guy anymore, and I don't enjoy arguing and fighting with folks.

What I learned out of this is; next time I need to buy the reloading dies and components first, AND MAKE A DUMMY ROUND.

[sicero]

You might go back and look at your notes as to what you told the reamer maker you wanted. They may well have a recording of your order if it was done over the phone and if not you should have a written copy of your order. What you are calling freebore is not what a reamer maker calls freebore. There may be miss communication and the blame may be shared. Some standard reamers are designed with a lot more leade than we prefer. They are not wrong just different. Kenny

[Bryce]

The effective length of the freebore so far as seating bullets against the lands is also effected by the diameter, not just the length.

That may or may not be a factor.

Just because you have 0.100 of jump at a bullet in neck length you like how do you know that the freebore isn't what you asked for. That is all effected by the shape of the bullet, the length of the case, the freebore and the freebore diameter. If you went to a 40 grain Berger you'd probably never reach the lands and another bullet may reach them comfortably.

Bryce

[Centerfire]

Originally Posted by Bryce

The effective length of the freebore so far as seating bullets against the lands is also effected by the diameter, not just the length.

That may or may not be a factor.

Just because you have 0.100 of jump at a bullet in neck length you like how do you know that the freebore isn't what you asked for. That is all effected by the shape of the bullet, the length of the case, the freebore and the freebore diameter. If you went to a 40 grain Berger you'd probably never reach the lands and another bullet may reach them comfortably.

Bryce

Bryce,

When I placed my order with Dave over the phone, I stressed to him that I wanted to use Lapua cases, and 39 or 40 grain bullets exclusively in my new 1-11 barrel. And I wanted the bullets up against the lands. Assuming he was the expert and knew what he was doing, I had faith and confidence in his judgement and agreed to his suggesting a .04" "Lead" He did not express concerns about variances, nor did he suggest that I should send him a dummy round.

After using this reamer, I now have a bore that has the bullet jumping .1" to the lands, and not the .04 I expected.

So then under the circumstances I just described, you feel that this reamer he made and the bore it produces is just what I asked for or close to....."bullet against the lands"?

Kenny,

I have the reamer print that shows a lead of .04". Not being a gunsmith however, I don't understand if this drawing is representative of the reamer that I have.
BUT......like I was saying to Bryce,
I think it's pretty clear when I told Dave that I wanted to have the 39 grain Sierra bullet up against the lands, that there isn't a whole lot of wiggle room in that request. At the time of my phone order with him, I was not familiar with the different terminology. When I agreed to go along with his suggestion of doing a .04 "lead", in my mind I understood it to mean that he was suggesting the bullet be .04" from the lands......instead of right against it. That sounded OK to me, as I figured I would still have plenty of bullet base to leave the bullet out the .04" or move it up to touch the lands if I so desired. But, .1" from the lands is what I ended up with, and the bullet just isn't any longer to be able to get it any closer. That is 2 1/2 times more then .04". I don't know what happened to cause the final reamer to be so different from my request .....or why there was such a lack of understanding of what I thought I was clearly asking him for. (ie: "bullet against the lands")

I'm not angry. Just very frustrated with more wasted time, energy, gas, and money. This will cost me another 5 hrs driving to the smith twice....and whatever the smith decides to charge me to rechamber. ($200??) Dave will probably recut the reamer shorter at modest or discounted rate. I'll not argue with whatever he decides to charge. I just finished lapping and sighting in my new Elite on dual dovetail mounts. I gotta pull that all apart now too?

Like I said elsewhere: "You live and learn". I will never let this happen again. The next time I order a reamer from anybody, I will have a dummy round included. I'll also have the message "Please make sure the Bullet is up against the lands" spray painted on their friggin office window.

[ray h]

Centerfire, I've been following your problem. I've got several reamers from Dave that I sent him a drawing, high lighted the zero leade. They return a reamer sheet showing "0" leade but I'm seating bullets out more than I wanted or expect for a zero leade. Maybe the 1 1/2* throat is part of the problem. I'm going to go back to a 2 1/2* on the next reamer and, like you, Dave WILL get a round with a seated bullet.

[Daryl]

You may ask for a .040" leade, then 1 1/2 or 2 degrees of throat. This does not mean the bullet's groove diameter will only be .040"out of the case mouth. The throat's angle also have to be taken into consideration as the bulet must be seated out further yet, to touch.
; Maybe I'm not understanding the problem.
; 1/8"is NOT freebore. 1/8", or .125" is leade. Freebore is 1/2" to 1. That's freebore. Freebore is usually .001"to .002" larger than bullet diameter. Leade is groove or bullet diameter.

[bohica2xo]

Good grief. All of this bench racing, and no shooting.

This is exactly why I no longer work on rifles for people I do not know. 2 pages of back & forth over something that may not even be an issue. People now jump right on a public forum, bashing the reamer maker & gunsmith - without even shooting the weapon. Even if they don't know jack about what they are looking at, they will suggest crap like " to produce an overly long chamber would cause excess space with case bulging or head seperation". If you have an actual problem after shooting the weapon, take it up with the gunsmith first.

Shoot the rifle. You are posting thing like "40,0000" for dimensions, then refering to a ruler? Four hundred thousand what? angstroms?

I guess you wanted .040 inch lead, and somehow you believe you have .100 "freebore". You don't know what you really have.

A well known professional did his best to steer you to the proper reamer, and probably did the right thing. If he did a .040 lead & 1.5 degree throat as has been suggested then you will have a decent chamber.

If you planned to stuff the bullets all the way into the case up to the ogive, and wanted them to touch the rifling - that is just not going to happen.


B.