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  #21  
Old 06-25-2015, 07:47 PM
bowfisher bowfisher is offline
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And to add, I'd look at doing a 17/22 TCM first, I have one in the works. The case heads will hold up much better, being 223 size, ours has approximately 12.5 gr capacity.

I also prefer the 4.6 cases, I have a bunch and have a couple different reamers for tight necked 17VHA's, one is a 35deg shoulder 17/4,6x30, the 17HK.

It's a free country, but I'd be trading that 5.7 brass for something better, if it were me.
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  #22  
Old 06-25-2015, 07:50 PM
bowfisher bowfisher is offline
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Forgot to mention, I took my 17VHA to MT last year, along with several other rifles, and I feel it's the PERFECT size case for GS's. Much less noise than even the 20VT, doesn't have quite the terminal effect, but it throws them well enough for me, and barrel heating isn't much of an issue at 9.4 grs/round.
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  #23  
Old 06-26-2015, 07:21 AM
georgeld georgeld is offline
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I have the rifle now that Foxhunter was talking about. Cooper M 38.
I also got the form die from him. With a slight coat of Imperial wax they form slick as can be one stroke, and all very uniform too.

I just formed about 900 5.7's a couple weeks ago that I had catching dust. I have run into a problem though. Primers in about half of them wouldn't seat and ruined the primers. Bob told me on the phone to get a primer pocket swag die set. I did, but, RCBS don't make a .17 cal pin for inside the case for this set. I called them yesterday to order one and that's what the lady said after confirming with someone else. It comes with a .22 and .30 cal pins.

I'm thinking of trying to turn one of these down with a carbide bit on the lathe. Don't know if it can be done or not, I figure if I ruin one they'll replace it n/c for the asking. IF you're going to form brass, swage the primer holes FIRST and save the hassle I just ran into for the first time. I've formed a couple thousand and never had this problem until this batch. Head stamps are all the same so I don't know what the deal is.

Don: Do you have a tool grinder to turn a pin down for me? Also, what thread is on the upper end? I can't figure it out with the thread checker and dies I have. IF I could get the threads figured out I'd turn a couple from drill rod and temper them.

Lee, Redding and RCBS all sell the proper shell holders, Lee's are much cheaper and seem to fit the case head better than the RCBS I have been using.
Lee also sells one that fits their easy priming tool most of us use too. I just bought one, think it was $5 from Midway, they're in stock. So are the 5.7 case trimmer pins. BUT: again, they are .224" and will not fit in the .17 cases!

Far as the coating goes, I never had a problem with that, Bob did. I just put 'em in the shaker til its cleaned off, they polish up nice as can be.

I made a rifle up with Trotters help and Paul Rogers reamed the neck out as the reamer I used had a real tight neck and 80% of the cases split at the shoulders when fired. He took it out to .203" from .195".
I used the barrel from a HMR in a NEF single shot rifle and action from a .223. Works great but, the hassles I had getting it to work made me bleed! Sure didn't save any money using that cheaper gun. Near as I can figure it ended up costing close to $350-400.

THEN I blew the sucker up!! Trying to find max charge so I'd know, planned to cut it back once I found it. Used 20gr V'max, 10.0 H110, fired ten shots in the same case, upped it to 10.1, fired one and it was fine. Added .1 to make 10.2gr and it blew up! Be CAREFUL with these tiny cases as Don said above!!
I got lucky, action blew open, nothing hit me in the face, plastic trigger guard was in pieces, bloody spots on my trigger hand, nothing serious, the L lever inside was broken, so was the firing pin. I sent the action only back to NEF and they replaced the pin, seems like they charged me but ,it wasn't much. I was told NOT to send the barrel in as they'd destroy it. That's where I had the money and time tied up. They just sent a new lever, replaced the firing pin and I was back in business, after making the changes to it Trotter made.

Now I only load 9.5gr AA 1680 which is plumb safe in both this and the Cooper.

This may be a repeat of what's above, I didn't read thru the thread again this time. Glad it came back up so we with experience can share with newbies to the cartridge. Kevin Weaver still has the reamer, I had him recut the Cooper chamber after Cooper screwed it up for me. Now both of my rifles shoot the same case. Before they were a bit different and wouldn't chamber in both. Kevin has only cut this one chamber, twice now, so the reamer is as good as new yet.

Hope this helps, more questions, just ask 'em before you get into trouble.
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  #24  
Old 06-29-2015, 06:37 PM
nvreloader nvreloader is offline
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George,

I checked my RCBS primer swag dies,
The thread at the top is 1/4X28tpi, by the gages,

If you have not formed the 5.7 case to 17 cal,
then the 22 cal rod would fit OK,

If you have already formed to 17 cal,
then there is a problem, Huston.

IMHO,
if you turn down a inside rod to .172 diameter,
I am afraid that the rod would bend/brake,
because of the very small rod diameter needed to enter into the case neck etc.
I have bent the standard 22 cal rod on tough Mil cases etc.

How are the primers NOT seating right??
Are the star stabs around the primer pocket causing the headache/problems?

If this is what you are talking about,
simpler easy solution, without a lot of $$ being spent,
would be to use a standard 17 cal RCBS case deburr tool,
which is what I used and use on full circle Mil cases in all calibers.

Just use it enough to LIGHTLY remove the the tabs ends,
and NOT remove any primer pocket material,
yet allows the primer to seat normally etc.

Try it and see if that won't cure the problem.

Tia,
Don
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Last edited by nvreloader; 06-30-2015 at 11:17 AM.
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  #25  
Old 06-30-2015, 05:56 AM
georgeld georgeld is offline
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thanks Don:

Didn't discover the problem until after I'd formed to .17's.
Sure don't want to size them back to 22 and then back to 17 again.
Doubt they'd last thru it all. Way too many too.

These are the short 5.7 cases, just over an inch ovl.

Rims on the primers catch and smash the primers about 30% of 'em.
Never ran into this problem before even on these cases. Cases are not crimped around the primers, the holes are just too tight.

Never had seen a primer pocket swage before til foxhunter sent a picture of one. I called RCBS when the set came with the .22 and .30 pins and not a .17. The lady put me on hold while she verified they don't make one this size for this set.

IF it was just a couple dozen I'd just toss 'em or donate to someone else but, I've reformed 14lbs of 'em, that's right around 900 cases.

IF anyone can tell me what the thread size is on the rods, I'd just make a couple from drill rod and temper them. I've been tied up doing other things more important since discovering this problem so it hasn't been a big deal yet.

Thanks again,
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  #26  
Old 06-30-2015, 11:31 AM
nvreloader nvreloader is offline
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George,

I realize your working too hard on the well,
but slow down and smell the flowers.

If it had been a snake, it would have bit you on the nose.

Read the second line on my post above.

I would go to SAAMI and get the minimum spec size for the small rifle primers, and make a temp punch that size and see if that would solve the problem,
REMEMBER there is not much room for error on the case head size.

Tia,
Don
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  #27  
Old 06-30-2015, 01:21 PM
foxhunter foxhunter is offline
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george i use a primer pocket reamer chucked up in a drill to do large jobs. you have to be careful and use a piece of leather or gloves so as not to be cut by case mouth. it removes the crimp as it uniforms the pocket.
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  #28  
Old 07-01-2015, 04:11 AM
georgeld georgeld is offline
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Bob:
Wish you'd showed me that with the swage tools, would have gotten one of those too. Thanks, now I know what to look for.

I may have to take a big glass in there to look at the pp's to make sure there's not any button punch marks I haven't noticed. My eye's are not as sharp as they should be at times. Guess I'm not either after missing Don's thread size note!

Don:
I told a helper the same thing the other day. Sent him in the shop to get a box of sockets laying on the bench. Two trips n ten minutes I gave up and crawled out of the hole and pointed them out to him: "Don't get snake bit!"

I tried a 1/4" x 28 die and it wouldn't screw on, that's why I asked. I'll take the die out and see if a tap will next time I think of it.

Finally got that well running last night. Turned out over the last few yrs it wasn't used n while I was down, a plastic bag had blown down the hole n plugged the foot valve. I'd run the dipper bucket in a few times n barely got a half inch of sludge so didn't figure mud had plugged it up. Bag was half into the valve. Would have caused problems if it had been sucked thru and into the impeller, I would have found it sooner though as I pulled the pump apart to make sure it was clear and working. Pumping great 26 hours now.

Far as flower sniffing goes, they've been starved for water this yr n gave up the blooming while I messed with getting this going. We've had lots of rain this yr so I figured that's all things would need. But, looking it over the yard sure was dried out. Giving it a good soak now. I'd rather pay the power company to run a 1/2hp motor for weeks at a time than the water company for what's free under us for the pumping. We're entitled to one acre ft per yr the state water board told me a few yrs ago. BUT, they passed a rule that's only IF we don't have city water available. They don't want the water company not to have funds n customers I guess.

I could tell a good story about water works having a guy sit for a week watching me water when I didn't even have a meter for two yrs. He'd come check the can and scratch his head, radio in and go sit in the truck more. Finally I asked WTH he was doing. "trying to figure out how you're watering without even a meter or hose to the neighbors". Couldn't believe I had a well.
He/they thought it was a requirement to register it. "not when it's an old farm field well from the '1920's, state water board didn't even want to know about it. "A sign is just a courtesy to you guys, I'm not required to post one."
I'll bet they checked that out too.

Anyway, us old guys have to have some fun once in awhile, right?

Thanks much for the help and advice etc.
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  #29  
Old 07-01-2015, 05:57 AM
foxhunter foxhunter is offline
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george jess williams of las cruces called the water department and ask the meter reader and his supervisor come out to his house, he was contesting the meter readers numbers. they showed up and jess ask the meter reader to read the meter, just to have base numbers. the reader wandered around the property for 45 minutes and finally came back to jess and his supervisor. jess looked at him as ask for the numbers, the meter reader looked kind of funny and told him he couldn't finnd the meter. finally jess ask the supervisor to get the numbers. 30 minutes later he also could not find the meter.
the supervisor look at jess and ask do you know where the meter is? jess nodded his head yes, well where is it he ask? jess took them to the street in front of his house and pointed to a spot in the pavement and said" it's right there" the supervisor looked at jess and ask, there where? jess replied about 10" down, the city paved over the meter 4 months before. lots of red faces that day.
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  #30  
Old 04-16-2016, 04:12 PM
squirrel_slayer squirrel_slayer is offline
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wow been a long time since I started this thread. I got sidetracked on this project by my new found freedom from buying bullets (started casting over a year ago) the little 17's do sound fun but after your guy's advice I think the 17HH may be the ticket to fill that niche.
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