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  #11  
Old 05-01-2015, 03:44 PM
ramos ramos is offline
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Get very many individuals together and there are bound to be differences that arise. Not just in theory or beliefs but, also in personalities. I have had a few run-ins here, not many. I probably contributed to them, knowingly or not. All in all, I believe this is one of the more cordial and respectful sites for reliable small caliber information. Once in awhile a certifiable nimrod with keyboard-ninja tendencies will show up. Most often espousing (wow) advice that at best does not compute, at worse could get someone hurt. These individuals, for whatever reason, don't seem to stick around here for very long. I certainly don't think we have any of 'those' guys posting on Saubier at this point in time.

Anyway, just wanted to say that there is NOBODY in the list of current, active members that I would be happy to see leave. I need to go shoot a squirrel or something before I start singing Kumbaya!

Last edited by ramos; 05-01-2015 at 03:45 PM. Reason: correction
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  #12  
Old 05-01-2015, 04:17 PM
Rick in Oregon Rick in Oregon is offline
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Bill, I understand and agree 100% with what you're saying and the reason you've chosen to leave. I too have had my issues with the same "Dark Ones" you mention, and it's a real shame individuals such as they have caused a valued member such as yourself to leave the site.

I've learned much from your posts, and will truly miss seeing them here. Do drop by on occasion, and the very best to you in your future endeavors.

Adios Amigo
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  #13  
Old 05-01-2015, 05:38 PM
Eagle_view Eagle_view is offline
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Bill, You have always brought carefully thought out ideas or valid experiences to the forum and I hope that you will continue. I personally feel that your ideas and experiences have helped us all.

I also hope that this is not a coded message indicating that something more dire is happening in your life. If there is anything that we can do to help? You know how to get ahold of me offline.

Please overlook those that sputter their wrath, we recognize those that do and skip over said rants.

There are certain people that I look for when I open this forum and yours is of course on the top of the list that I look forward to reading.

Take care

Lowell
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  #14  
Old 05-01-2015, 06:08 PM
nvreloader nvreloader is offline
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Bill

Thank you,

I am sorry to hear of your leaving because of the problems that have shown up here, you will be missed.

You have been a great asset to this forum, and I have also learned from your thoughts, Ideas and sharing of them.

THANK YOU again,

Don
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  #15  
Old 05-01-2015, 08:12 PM
chigger chigger is offline
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Whoa! Tell us more about the 243 horny toad. I did a quick google search and only two legitimate threads popped up with that. The other threads regarding horny toad I'm sure are not allowed on this site. One sauiber referencing back to 2012. The other on performance rifles. Only showing pictures. Beautiful CZ 527 wood stock on that one. (more digging found that CZ rife to be yours)
I love playing with the 221 case. shooting the 17 mach IV, 20 vartarg and 221. Plans to build and shoot the 14 walker, 6mm, 6.5 and black out. All being off the 221 case.
I've formed a few off of the 221 to match all but the 14 above.
What performance did you get out of the 6mm bullet in the case? What shoulder angle were you working with? In my tinkering drawings, I wanted to use the 58 grain v-max. Any usage with that round on the horny toad.
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Last edited by chigger; 05-01-2015 at 08:26 PM.
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  #16  
Old 05-01-2015, 09:33 PM
TOU TOU is offline
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Default I can't even tell you how sad this makes me....

I know the following is probably too long but please indulge me as I can't even tell you how sad this makes me.

Bill, I think the world of you and your sweet wife. I thoroughly enjoy your post and wry sense of humor. Honestly, I think of you as extended family. Additionally, I have likely personally learned more from you than nearly anyone else on this site. I do miss others like Dan C as well that seem to have faded in their inspiring posts.

If you depart fully from here it will be a great loss and I hope you reconsider regardless of how much you shoot. But if you do, I respect your right to do so and no matter what, it will not affect our friendship outside of here. Heck...I will need to pick your brain on reloading, wildcatting and many other things for many years to come.

Folks...Yes, I know that other sites can be soooo much worse and a free for all. So what...that in no way should mean or excuse allowing disrespect etc to propagate here. That is them, this is Saubier; I believe this should always represent integrity and quality...period. (Frankly I feel there are few here that are given a much wider swath with their p**p-disturbing sniping than they should be...but I will leave that for another day.) I personally want to think of this place as one with greater honor, integrity and respect than other sites...period. Most of the time it is and most participants really are the salt of the earth like you Bill...most of the time. I fear though, that like you there have been many quality posters that have gone into the woodwork rather than conflict...sadly.

Bill. I think I know where you're coming from and I thoroughly empathize...I too am not a fan of having my integrity questioned. You deserve better my friend and its a shame a few have been given greater allowances than they maybe should have been. To be frank I definitely don't participate as much anymore as I get tired of being sniped etc. I also admit to being exasperated myself at times, I have even gotten frustrated and a bit disappointed by a few who I used to look up. That is likely a personal problem as I likely had too high of expectations and in the end we are all just men (women etc). Additionally, I admit I don't always live up to my own expectations so I guess I will overlook things and try to do better myself. But this is not about me...

That all said, in respect to this site and who it will be in the future, it will largely be up to how we police ourselves and create and maintain an inclusive crowd. It seems to me that of late, that there have been some divisions developing of an "Us vs. Them"...more than I ever hoped would happen here. Very sad. With it has come a sense of superiority and condescension when it comes to things like....
  • Old guard vs. Newbies
  • Wild Catter's vs. Factory shooters
  • Reloaders vs. Factory ammo shooters
  • Main stream thinking vs. theoreticians

That means we allow should welcome input from "Wild Catter's", factory shooters, small caliber theoreticians as well as just plane small caliber shooting enthusiast...whether they reload much or not. It is a much richer diverse setting with it all & they should all be allowed...but I digress. It means that we all be willing to call out just plain p**p disturbing sniping. It means respect for opposing views and respect looking at the greater good of expanding thought processes. It means allot more things but that's a start. I for one apologize for sometimes being less thick skinned than I should be.

As noted, I think I have a handle on where you are coming from and at times I have felt similar. As frustrated as I get trying to participate and being allowed to bring value here...I have to admit I just don't know where else to find the information and discussions that I can here. If you are gone, I will thoroughly miss your thought provoking and insightful as well as entertaining post!

You da'Man Bill, thx for being my friend and mentor.

Ken (TOU)
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Last edited by TOU; 05-01-2015 at 09:43 PM.
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  #17  
Old 05-01-2015, 10:09 PM
Big Joe Big Joe is offline
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While I am not a newbie, if you look at my number of posts you would think so. I have been here a while and have learned tons about the art of small caliber cartridges. I have followed several members in their quest for a particular, one of a kind, or at the least not many types of cartridges and rifles. I have fallen a most happy victim to a few of them. I wont name the one who offered advice and or just the nudge to get me fired up about each choice at the very moment. I currently possess and shoot three rifles that are a direct influence of this board and it's members. One of the guys has already left because of unsportsman like conduct. I understand why they feel the way they do. I got a warm welcome here after a pan frying elsewhere. And the weird part is I ask the same question here and got great advise and a tad of mentoring when I sought it. I will and do miss the good members when they are not present and not just when they leave. I have PMed several who I followed on projects when I missed them for one reason or another. Usually all was fine with only a few that had all they could handle and maintain what I call a perfect score. Ok, this is getting to long so to finish, Bill I have followed many of your projects and enjoyed you presence here. You are and will be missed when you are not here. Having been on the same side of the road you now face I truly wish you the best in any route you take. And thank you for your service to this site and its members.
Joe
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  #18  
Old 05-01-2015, 10:19 PM
johno johno is offline
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Bill

Say it aint so old mate, please take time to reconsider, your contribution here has been huge. We have talked by email for so long now I feel like an old man

Your ideas would have inspired many here to try something different, your polite advise and help could only be well received.

Johno
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  #19  
Old 05-01-2015, 10:59 PM
Eric Mayer Eric Mayer is offline
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Bill,

I would hate for you and your input and knowledge to leave this (or any) place.

Eric
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  #20  
Old 05-01-2015, 11:57 PM
ramos ramos is offline
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Clearly, you have earned the respect, trust and appreciation of many members through your contributions here. I count myself among them, FWIW. I understand that each of us has to draw the line somewhere and nobody can make that call for us. Just sad to see a good guy walk away because of frustration caused by what I would guess is a few bad apples. No winners in this picture.
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