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  #1  
Old 05-18-2015, 09:27 PM
Lenard Lenard is offline
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Default Hammer Forged Barrels and Stress

I was on here several weeks ago talking about a 527 223 Varmint I sold my friend. I think I may have a reason why his groups never matched mine.

Since 95% of my shooting is at RockChucks, I seldom if ever have a need to shoot over 3 shots in a 10 minute time slot. Thus, I would go out to zero and fire three shot groups. Once zero'd, I would shoot another rifle.

With 3 shot groups, this gun has shot .912 300 yard groups and .709 at 200 yards. To my knowledge, I never tried to shoot 5 shot groups. 100 yard groups were almost always under 1/2".

Now the differences between my friend and me. He shoots 5 shot shot groups and maybe 4 or 5 groups from each gun at a setting. The more he shot the 527, the larger the groups got. By the way, these are full pressure loads shot by both of us.

My guess is, the barrel was poorly stress relieved and after three or 4 shots, the groups start to open from stresses. The gun had shot so well with 40 and 50 grain bullets for me, I just had a hard time understanding his large groups. The above is all I can do to explain this.
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Old 05-18-2015, 10:07 PM
ramos ramos is offline
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Of course, five shot groups are also simply more difficult to execute. Each shot is an opportunity for the shooter to open the group up through their own inconsistency. Five shot groups are pretty easy, compared to ten shot groups.
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Old 05-19-2015, 01:33 AM
MIBULLETS MIBULLETS is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lenard View Post
My guess is, the barrel was poorly stress relieved and after three or 4 shots, the groups start to open from stresses. The gun had shot so well with 40 and 50 grain bullets for me, I just had a hard time understanding his large groups. The above is all I can do to explain this.
Could be. I had a American with the pencil barrel and that thing would pound them in the same group as a cold barel even when hot to the touch.
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Old 05-19-2015, 05:14 AM
georgeld georgeld is offline
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Have him check the barrel is free floating and screws all tight too.
I'd think those things would have more effect than a barrel glitch.

George
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Old 05-19-2015, 09:16 AM
Kiwishooter Kiwishooter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ramos View Post
Of course, five shot groups are also simply more difficult to execute. Each shot is an opportunity for the shooter to open the group up through their own inconsistency. Five shot groups are pretty easy, compared to ten shot groups.

Well explained, I use the following when I try to convey to people about shooting groups that know nothing about shooting........after the first shot the group can only get worse, it can never get better and each shot gives more opportunity for it to get worse.........Kiwi
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Old 05-19-2015, 08:12 PM
Rbertalotto Rbertalotto is offline
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I recently read an article where a fellow much smarter than I in the math department suggested we should shoot ten, 2-shot groups and then avarage them for a much better idea of accuracy that the typical 3-shot, 5-shot or 10-shot group. Seemed to make sense to me.

I believe he suggested to remove the best and worse 2-shot group before averaging.

BTW, about that hammer forged barrel opening the group when it got hot....Have it Cryoed. I've had this done to a number of rifles with hammer forged barrels with very good results.

I used a company called "300 Below"
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  #7  
Old 05-19-2015, 08:35 PM
georgeld georgeld is offline
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Roy:

when I had the L461 rebarreled I had the blank frozen by this company.
The gunsmith had quite a few frozen after turning them. He said this was the first blank he'd turned that had been treated and it was the easiest turning barrel blank he'd ever worked on. From then on he was going to have the blanks frozen before turning. I haven't talked it over with him since in our many visits. He's now retired though.

When sorting bullets, a fellow member here donated a great many bullets, between us I ended up with 19 bullets between 35 & 55gr. I had my load, 25gr 4895. So just sorting the bullets was all I had to do, no other changes. So it made things quite simple.

Five shots each, and rejected all except the best 4-5. Then loaded n fired five each of those til final sorting. Ended up with 35 & 40 gr V'max and 55gr el cheapo Rem's. Those 40gr V'max I made several ten shot groups under 1/4". Amazing especially for MY shooting. Steve witnessed it and all he'd ever say was: "That shoots like a house afire" I never have been able to figure out what that's supposed to mean.

What's amazing is this was a cheap $70 blank from Midway's A&B products. The rifle went to pot in the middle of fur season. It was only down about three weeks for a complete rebuild. New barrel, stock and glass all paid for by prairie dog heads sold to an outfit buying them those days at $2 each. Something like $460 total. Hell of a deal huh?

George
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Old 05-19-2015, 10:09 PM
Lenard Lenard is offline
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Roy, I have set out 8 or 10 3/4" dots on my targets and shot a single shot into each of them.This was with my PacNor barreled guns. Except for when I pulled one shot, they were all within the dots.

I have seriously considered sending that barrel off and get it frozen. I have a 527 Hornet I could fit the barrel to. That is if the bolt will work. I will have to check on that. If it will fit, I will send the barrel off for freezing.
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  #9  
Old 05-20-2015, 01:15 AM
Stevo Stevo is offline
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Lenard did it ever cross your mind that you may be a better marksman then him?

Just sayin
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  #10  
Old 05-20-2015, 02:10 AM
Lenard Lenard is offline
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Yes Stevo, that thought has crossed my mind. He is one of my best friends and I would never do or say anything to disturb that relationship. Keep in mind, he is 76 and I will soon be 75. We have hunted together for 17 years and we neither one keep score.

From having a smith scope the barrel, it is rough, but still shot well. It would be worth the money to see if freezing it would make a difference. What I may do is have the barrel fitted to my action and see how it groups. Then send it out for freezing.

Time will tell.
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