Saubier.com  



Go Back   Saubier.com > Saubier.com Forums > Small Caliber Discussion Board

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 11-15-2017, 01:29 PM
hemiallen hemiallen is offline
Supporting Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,239
Default

Thanks Bill
I wish I have the experience experimenting like you and a few others that have done.

It makes sense barrel volume plays into the heating also, like it probably dictates different powders do better and burn rate of the charge changes too.
Dang phone makes typing slow... on vacation at the happiest place on earth.... for a kid😎
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 11-15-2017, 02:47 PM
william t. oviatt william t. oviatt is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Lander, Wyoming
Posts: 2,524
Default

Allen
If the KID"S Happy...So, is the Dad!!!!!
Have Fun!
Bill
__________________
"Burn Powder, Not Comrades"!
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 11-15-2017, 05:32 PM
moorepower moorepower is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,549
Default

.17HH, .22H or .22 KH, .221FB. I have a .920 straight barrel on my 77/22/17 and I can shoot and shoot, it gets warm, but I could always grab it and hold it as long as I liked. The .17HH brass is not great, but still shoots 1/2" or less in many guns?? .221FB, Laupua brass, and lots of great bullets. I have no idea what kind of velocity you can attain with a 68-69 grain bullet, so I don't know how much would be gained. I would do a 1-12 twist and shoot 52 grain match bullets or 53 grain Vmax,
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 11-16-2017, 01:07 AM
steve123 steve123 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 482
Default

We shot today at the steel in 4-7 mph full value winds with 223 and my 17 Rem. Yep, it's just no challenge. The 400 meter Turkey is too easy to nail. Might just need to put a smaller steel next to it.

I wish there were more reports/reviews on the 22TCM built into a match rifle! Necking that down to 20 cal seems like it'd be about what I'm looking for.

Thanks for the Garin link and other suggestions. It's fun to ponder all the alternatives.

Pictures and wildcat testimonies are welcome.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 11-19-2017, 01:28 AM
barretcreek barretcreek is offline
Supporting Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,077
Default

Reading the posts my thought is a centerfire based on .221 or .223 in a caliber with a wide variety of twists and bullet weights so that you could tailor your load to distance and conditions. 7mm and .30 might even work with cast bullets.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 11-19-2017, 07:11 PM
steve123 steve123 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 482
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by barretcreek View Post
Reading the posts my thought is a centerfire based on .221 or .223 in a caliber with a wide variety of twists and bullet weights so that you could tailor your load to distance and conditions. 7mm and .30 might even work with cast bullets.
Just mentioning this for the heck of it...a year ago I played around with a RAR in 300 BO. The rifle was only capable of 1.2 moa groups on average with good handloads, both subsonic and supersonic, using about 5 different bullet types and different powders. This was on some of the same steel we shoot now but the other steel hadn't been there yet. Subsonic, even with 230 grain berger hybrids, it was hard to hit the turkey at 400M in the wind. A tiny bit easier with 155's at 2100 fps but I decided both the rifle and the cartridge isn't my thing so I sold it.

Some friends have their Sharps rifles that are reasonably accurate but unscoped. They use lead bullets and black powder. For some weird reason their vertical at the longer distances are much tighter than that RAR ever was. They really struggle in the wind at that turkey though.

It really is a fine balance when trying to pick a cartridge that is either too easy to hit with, or too hard, when it comes to my criteria.

Appealing to me are;

Easy to form wildcat or just a factory case.

Using light bullets and less powder.

long barrel and throat life with less barrel heating.

Less copper and carbon fouling and need for cleaning often.

Easy approx 1/2" at 100Y grouping.

Not spending tons of $ on dies, reamer, etc, and being able to find brass readily available.

For this project I would like to just send a rifle off or buy one from a gunsmith that has his own custom reamer matched to a certain brand brass like Lapua or Norma and with dies to match that as well.

Let's talk rifles.

Cooper in 19 Calhoon or 20 VT?

CZ in 19 Badger or 20 VT.

I saw a Panda Fclass drop port, just the action!!! but it's for the BR case. Man if I had the money right now I'd order that sucker. Then find a exquisite blank of wood...You know, a no holds barred fantasy varminter.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 11-20-2017, 02:19 PM
william t. oviatt william t. oviatt is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Lander, Wyoming
Posts: 2,524
Default

Personally, after several 19 caliber barrels that Cooper had to take back and rebarrel due to issues with the barrel, I would stay away from Cooper and 19s.

You cannot beat the CZ 527 that Jim puts out in the 19s...The Badger is his favorite and is very versatile. Shot thousands of 19 cal 32 grain bullets and they are extremely accurate and explosive.

If a 20 VT: either a Cooper or a CZ will make you happy...I just do not like to pay so much for the wood on the Cooper to have it worry me in field with how abusive I am in handling rifles. A nick in the wood of a Cooper could ruin my day pretty quickly. I have never had a CZ that did not shoot extremely well or make me wish I had spent more $s on a Cooper. Not criticizing Cooper, just prefer the utility and performance of the CZs at considerably less cost.

The Badger is right on the heals of the VT with about 4 grains less of powder.
If the 19 bullets are a mental issue in availability and one still likes the Carbine case...Garin's 20 Garin is the Sister to the Badger...just need to turn case necks, and dies are a little more cost-wise.

Bill
__________________
"Burn Powder, Not Comrades"!
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 11-20-2017, 07:02 PM
steve123 steve123 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 482
Default

See Bill, you just saved me a bunch of potential hassle(and money) by communicating your wisdom, thanks!
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 11-21-2017, 01:34 AM
georgeld georgeld is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Pueblo, CO
Posts: 5,832
Send a message via MSN to georgeld
Default

Bill:
That's why they came out with junk shit plastic stocks!!

Steve: 4-7mph is NOT full value WIND! That's barely a breeze!
Don't worry about it til it's over 10mph.
Even then, a 400yd pr/dog, if zeroed 2" high, when they're standing up.
"hold a height high, and a height up wind and you'll be right on, or so close it'll scare 'em to death.
__________________
George

"Gun Control is NOT about guns,
it's about CONTROL!!"
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 11-21-2017, 01:49 AM
steve123 steve123 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 482
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by georgeld View Post
Bill:
That's why they came out with junk shit plastic stocks!!

Steve: 4-7mph is NOT full value WIND! That's barely a breeze!
Don't worry about it til it's over 10mph.
Even then, a 400yd pr/dog, if zeroed 2" high, when they're standing up.
"hold a height high, and a height up wind and you'll be right on, or so close it'll scare 'em to death.
What I mean by a "full value wind" is that the direction of the wind is coming from either 9 or 3 o'clock, vs a "half value wind" coming from any other direction except 6 or 12 oclock which are zero value.

The value or direction, is not to be confused with wind speed. To determine the holdoff or to dial the correction, we must use both speed and wind value.

Then there's spin drift to consider...

But I understand what you mean....

I'm a former AZ state long range champion BTW, just saying.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 01:24 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.