New 17HH build, FAIL

[Screaminweasil]

10-4

Easy to do, easy to do my friend.

I have first hand experience.

Originally Posted by william t. oviatt

Screamin,

This is what I was addressing...but, missing the point is a favorite past-time for me...and I may have done it here..looks like it, too!..

I mistook the "GM" as "MGM"

Bill

[Ratbuster]

Originally Posted by JohnHenry

How significantly did your smith modify the factory contour? Never a plus for accuracy of a button rifled barrel..

Only took about .020 off, it was a straight pipe from GM and he removed just enough to fit into small shank action. Slight taper.

[Ratbuster]

Originally Posted by montdoug

If you're looking at new barrels have you contacted Pac-Nor? Every .17 and .20 barrel I have if not factory, is a Pac-Nor Super Match 3 groove stainless and "knock wood", I've never had a clunker.
They took my CZ 527 Varmint, used my wildcat reamer and chambered said 1 in 12 twist Super Match, 3 groove, Stainless to .20 Ackley Hornet. removed my old barrel, lapped the lugs and such, then installed the new barrel for $660.00 with barrel included in that. That was spring before last. I couldn't be more pleased and the rifle shoots bug-holes! Just a thought.
Hope ya figure out something that works for ya, I know how frustrating stuff like you are going through is. Good luck .

P.S.
Have you tried all the factory ammo available to see if there might be one of em the rifle likes? As handloaders ya tailor the load to the rifle, in a factory rifle ya do the same thing buy trying different ammo and bullet weights.

PacNor was contacted early on...they quoted over $600 so I scratched them from my list

[Ratbuster]

Originally Posted by moorepower

The Hornet needs to head space off of the rim. I had my Ruger set up at .063 witch is a little snug on a few. After that neck size and you will in essence be headspacing off of the shoulder also. I have a H&R i rechambered.17HRM to .17HH and The Ruger. Neither shoot any factory ammo over 1 1/8". Both shoot the 20 VMax from 1/2"-3/4" I think you may have got a bad barrel. Most GM barrels are great shooters, but not all.

If you do a standard 17HH chambering to work with an action designed for the rimmed Hornet cartridge then indeed it will be headspaced off the rim. In my application using a Savage action headspacing off the rim is not an option. In my opinion it is better to HS off the shoulder anyway. In this case we have the HS correct. After firing the cases stretch .002 to .0025.

The 17HH SAAMI spec is woefully flawed. Take a look at the SAAMI chamber and case diagrams. SAAMI allows the recess in the breech to vary from .072 to .065 deep and a rim thickness from .055 to .065. So if you had a case with a thin rim that still met spec you could and up with a headspace of .017 and fall in line with the spec. That is not a misprint...17 THOUSANDTHS ... The Hornady cartridge rim is at or around .061 thick. If the recess in the breech is cut on the deeper side approaching that .072 allowable depth you end up with .011 headspace with Hornady ammunition, too much!

My smith requested 3 once fired cases in lieu of a GO/NO go gages as there are no gages for headspacing off the shoulder. I fired 3 rounds through a 17H 527 CZ Varmint model that shoots factory ammo nicely. After the first firing of each cartridge the shoulder advanced .011 for each one of them!

[Chuck Miller]

I have 10-22's and a Martini in 17HMR and all do a good job. I tried to send Marty Kolbet a Green Mounatin 17cal barrel for a 17AH project.Told him to inspect and scope it and give his opinion. He didn't want to chamber it, said he would but he felt at best it would be a little below average, operative words are "at best". Sent him a McGowan 1-9" and got a thumbs up and the rifle shoots great. Guess there are no free lunches in life. I think the best priced barrels for the money are XCaliber but for 50-75 more you can step up to Pacnor, Shilen and others. I've learned the hard way that if I'm building a budget rifle the barrel is the last place I look to save money. You can screw a cheap barrel on a Kelby, Borden, pick one and all you got is an expensive turd, unless accuracy is not your goal. Curious as to why this top shelf smith didn't offer the "hey, your paying me a lot to do this, sure you want to screw on a 90.00 barrel?". Opinions being what they are worth today......

[william t. oviatt]

Man, Chuck you squarely hit that nail!

Many times in the beginning we cut costs where experience shows is the most costly!

I too, trust in Marty's opinion! His work ethic is pretty hard to find better!
He did a lot of 20 VTs for me and they all shot superb.

When work is completed as quoted and the quality is backed up by caring people, there is no better bargain out there!

Bill

[Ratbuster]

Originally Posted by Chuck Miller

I have 10-22's and a Martini in 17HMR and all do a good job. I tried to send Marty Kolbet a Green Mounatin 17cal barrel for a 17AH project.Told him to inspect and scope it and give his opinion. He didn't want to chamber it, said he would but he felt at best it would be a little below average, operative words are "at best". Sent him a McGowan 1-9" and got a thumbs up and the rifle shoots great. Guess there are no free lunches in life. I think the best priced barrels for the money are XCaliber but for 50-75 more you can step up to Pacnor, Shilen and others. I've learned the hard way that if I'm building a budget rifle the barrel is the last place I look to save money. You can screw a cheap barrel on a Kelby, Borden, pick one and all you got is an expensive turd, unless accuracy is not your goal. Curious as to why this top shelf smith didn't offer the "hey, your paying me a lot to do this, sure you want to screw on a 90.00 barrel?". Opinions being what they are worth today......

Chuck,

I had no prior experience with GM but heard from several credible sources that the GM would shoot good. Even my smith endorsed the choice, saying he has chambered 8 or 9 GM barrels that were all excellent shooters. I also read many positive reviews online. I think we just got a bad one which as you know could happen, even from the most respected and expensive barrels companies.

BTW, my son in law paid a custom AR builder over $2K for a "precision 308 AR 10 equipped with an Xcaliber barrel. The accuracy on that one is disappointing to say the least. It has all the good stuff but alas, a crappy shooter.

[ray h]

Many years ago I had Eddie chamber a 17AH in a GM barrel for fire forming on a Sav action . That thing would shoot 1/2'' to 5/8'' while smoking hot until fouling got to it. Gave it up, it was much easier forming in the field. Some GM barrels can be accurate.

[rick w.]

FWIW, PTG has always asked me on rimmed cases, if I wanted to headspace on the rim or the shoulder. I have always chosen the shoulder. My 17 Khornet with a GM mountain barrel shoots ok, and used the gages(shoulder) that PTG provided with the reamer.

One might peruse the crown with a q-tip, a real long shot as I have seen burrs on some crowns and the rifle was performing. A mystery to be sure.

Most barrel makers talk about removal of some length of the barrel fore/aft as their barrels were lapped.

0.050" seems like a lot of lead; just thought that was a bit odd for such a reamer.

[dungheap]

This thread really got busy!

I did not realize you were working with an Accu-trigger, and my comment was aimed at non-Accu Savage triggers. I used two of them,both of which had triggers nowhere near the three pound area, more like north of seven pounds.

I think Winchester lists a factory .17HH load, maybe that might be worth trying. Federal too.

Hope a solution is found, a favorable one too.