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  #11  
Old 10-11-2017, 10:30 PM
ramos ramos is offline
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RIO, that target says a lot for Nosler factory 2nd bullets, as well.
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  #12  
Old 10-11-2017, 10:31 PM
Jingle Jingle is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill K View Post
I had a chuckle when I read "Less than stellar Wilson barrels". When so many rifle, that use Wilson barrels shoot so well. I guess it is again, all in the eye of the beholder. Bill K
It pretty much sums up the credibility of the post.
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  #13  
Old 10-12-2017, 12:59 AM
hemiallen hemiallen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by South Pender View Post
We hear conflicting reports about the accuracy Cooper owners have found with their rimfire (M57) and small-caliber centerfire rifles.
All I can ask is, who is the WE in your line above?

My 20 VT shoots very well, I have had issues with case extraction but following their adjustments fixed the problem.

I haven't shot the LH cooper 17Mk 1v I got for my grandson, but suspect it shoots well also. But.... neither are in your "small caliber" description of 22 to 6mm, lol. Since when is 6mm a small caliber, especially on this website?

I believe the OP may have learned something from all the replies, maybe he can share with us who the WE is.
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  #14  
Old 10-12-2017, 01:23 AM
Bayou City Boy Bayou City Boy is offline
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Not a peep this evening from Mr. Pender.................

-BCB
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  #15  
Old 10-12-2017, 03:15 PM
SmokinJoe SmokinJoe is offline
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I may be wrong on this but it was my understanding that Wilson owns Cooper, so if that is correct the relationship is obvious. I have had several Coopers over the years and they all performed well or Cooper reworked them and then they performed well. My first Cooper was a M21 in 223 and I really thought I had a lemon as it would keyhole bullets at 100 yards. I kept working with it and after about 200 rds had it shooting in the .2-.3" range. I think Cooper/Wilson make very accurate rifles, but if not they will stand behind them.
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  #16  
Old 10-12-2017, 03:23 PM
Bayou City Boy Bayou City Boy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokinJoe View Post
I may be wrong on this but it was my understanding that Wilson owns Cooper, so if that is correct the relationship is obvious. I have had several Coopers over the years and they all performed well or Cooper reworked them and then they performed well. My first Cooper was a M21 in 223 and I really thought I had a lemon as it would keyhole bullets at 100 yards. I kept working with it and after about 200 rds had it shooting in the .2-.3" range. I think Cooper/Wilson make very accurate rifles, but if not they will stand behind them.
IIRC, Wilson has owned Cooper since before the 2008 election. Dan Cooper made a big stink by donating money to the Obama campaign and the Cooper BOD's booted him over it. Wilson barrel bought the company not too long after that.

Prior to that, however, Cooper had used Wilson barrels for quite a few years. I've never owned a Cooper in any caliber that didn't shoot extremely well and just like they advertised.

I have no idea where the OP is getting his information...........

-BCB
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Women and cats will do as they please. Men and dogs should relax and just get used to the idea.

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  #17  
Old 10-12-2017, 05:43 PM
South Pender South Pender is offline
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Looks as if I stirred up a hornets' nest with my post, offending some Cooper owners in the process! That wasn't my intention.

So let me add a bit to my initial comments. First, the "we" is readers of several gun forums who have, from time to time, read of Cooper owners' inability to duplicate the test targets sent with their rifles. To be a little more precise, I would say that we have seen this more often on the Rimfire Central Forum involving the Cooper M57 rimfire rifles. However, I've encountered this complaint on other forums too, like the Accurate Shooters forum.

Second point: my comment about Wilson barrels. I referred to them as "less than stellar" because I've never seen a Wilson barrel in the list of equipment used by winners in the various matches around the country. What do we see? Well, the winning rifles have such stellar barrels as those made by Krieger, Benchmark, Lilja, Shilen, Bartlein, Hart, and occasionally, Douglas (not very often), but never Wilson--at least to my knowledge. Cooper once used Shilen barrels, but ended that practice and went with Wilson. For a company that emphasizes the accuracy potential of their rifles, it surprises me that they don't spring for the best barrels available for their rifles. What follows is a recent discussion on the Rimfire Central Forum about Wilson barrels. You will see that members' experiences have been mixed:

http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums...wilson+barrels

Wilson barrels is a mass-production company that sells barrels in large lots for economical prices. If you go on to the Wilson Arms website and click on "Barrel Store," you will see that a minimum order is 100 barrels.

http://wilsonarms.com/barrel-store/

Their biggest production is in AR barrels. They are not made using some of the more hands-on time-consuming methods used by the top-quality match-grade barrel-makers. That is why they sell for about half to two-thirds the price (at Brownells, for example) of a top-quality barrel. Wilson barrels are decent, but not top-drawer, barrels.

It's not that Wilson bought Cooper, but rather that the guy who purchased Wilson barrels a few years ago, Hugo Vivero, then bought up Cooper and now owns them both. This accounts for Cooper's use of Wilson barrels.

Just as a final note, if I were ordering up a Cooper rifle to be built for me, I'd ask for a Lilja or Krieger barrel and pay the extra for that. Just my opinion on this, and others will feel differently. I might close by just saying that what I had looked for in this thread was some experiences with Cooper rifles and the accuracy obtained by owners, not to start an argument about Wilson barrels.

Last edited by South Pender; 10-12-2017 at 06:43 PM.
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  #18  
Old 10-12-2017, 06:04 PM
william t. oviatt william t. oviatt is offline
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I believe the reason Cooper uses Wilson barrels, is because they own Cooper, now.

Some of the most accurate rifles I have owned, have been Coopers.

That said I have had a few (4)_ that had to be rechambered due to poor barrels or chamberings...But, even the Best have problems, it's how they handle them that is important....and Cooper has ALWAYS made good on their mistakes...At least that has been my experience.

Bill
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  #19  
Old 10-12-2017, 06:54 PM
Bayou City Boy Bayou City Boy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by South Pender View Post
Looks as if I stirred up a hornets' nest with my post, offending some Cooper owners in the process! That wasn't my intention.

So let me add a bit to my initial comments. First, the "we" is readers of several gun forums who have, from time to time, read of Cooper owners' inability to duplicate the test targets sent with their rifle. To be a little more precise, I would say that we have seen this more often on the Rimfire Central Forum involving the Cooper M57 rimfire rifles. However, I've encountered this complaint on other forums too, like the Accurate Shooters forum.

Second point: my comment about Wilson barrels. I referred to them as "less than stellar" because I've never seen a Wilson barrel in the list of equipment used by winners in the various matches around the country. What do we see? Well, the winning rifles have such stellar barrels as Krieger, Benchmark, Lilja, Shilen, Bartlein, Hart, and occasionally, Douglas (not very often), but never Wilson--at least in my experience. Cooper once used Shilen barrels, but ended that practice and went with Wilson. For a company that emphasizes the accuracy potential of their rifles, it surprises me that they don't spring for the best barrels available for their rifles.

Wilson barrels is a mass-production company that sells barrels in large lots for economical prices. They are not made by the more hands-on time-consuming methods seen with the top-quality barrel-makers. That is why they sell for about half the price (at Brownells, for example) of a top-quality barrel.

It's not that Wilson bought Cooper, but rather that the guy who purchased Wilson barrels a few years ago, Hugo Vivero, then bought up Cooper and now owns them both. This accounts for Cooper's use of Wilson barrels.

Just as a final note, if I were ordering up a Cooper rifle to be built for me, I'd ask for a Lilja or Krieger barrel and pay the extra for that. Just my opinion on this, and others will feel differently. I might close by just saying that what I had looked for in this thread was some experiences with Cooper rifles and the accuracy obtained by owners, not to start an argument about Wilson barrels.
Close but no cigar again, Cisco.........

As to the part of your statement that I bolded and colored, once again as in my previous post, Cooper was using Wilson barrels when Dan Cooper was still at the head of the realm and long before the 2008 US Presidential election. You have always been able to special order other barrels if you like, but Wilson barrels have been the standard for years. And yes, at one time Shilen barrels were widely used, but that's not necessarily saying a lot.

You're the first person I've heard squeeking and moaning about Wilson barrel quality being inferior on Cooper rifles. Granted Wilson does sell barrels on large contracts to others, but that fact does nothing to diminish the quality of the Wilson barrel you'll get with a Cooper rifle. In comparison, not all GM cars are equal in quality or price either, ad nausem. In fact, Wilson will make a barrel to anyone's specs for quality if the buyer is willing to spring for at least 1K barrels. I'm sure Cooper has their own long standing barrel quality spec that goes back a long time.

The test target shot at 47 yards is nothing but an indicator of the accuracy potential of that individual rifle. Some folks might improve on it and others might never get close to the potential, but that's not the rifle's fault. And for the record, Hugo owned Wilson Barrels before the time when Dan Cooper was no longer running Cooper Firearms. The two events didn't happen simultaneously.

As for the second part:

"I might close by saying that what I had looked for in this thread was some experiences with Cooper rifles and the accuracy obtained by owners.............."

That's what you're getting. Don't be afraid, dude.... Spring for one.......... It will shoot very well or Cooper will fix it regardless of whose barrel is on it.

There are far too many satisfied long-time and new Cooper owners in the world to buy what you're pushing lock, stock, and barrel (pun intended). To come here or anywhere and push an agenda that tries to say otherwise........ My only question is what's your real agenda?

-BCB
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I miss mean Tweets, competence, and $1.79 per gallon gasoline.

Yo no creo en santos que orinan.

Women and cats will do as they please. Men and dogs should relax and just get used to the idea.

Going keyboard postal over something that you read on the internet is like seeing a pile of dog crap on the sidewalk and choosing to step in it rather than stepping around it.

If You're Afraid To Offend, You Can't Be Honest - Thomas Paine
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  #20  
Old 10-12-2017, 06:57 PM
ramos ramos is offline
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South Pender, there were a number of posts that offered exactly what you were looking for. That is, accuracy reports based on actual experience.

If you look back at my previous post, the numbers speak for themselves. I could swap my barrels for other brands that may be 'more stellar' and match my current accuracy but I doubt I could improve that accuracy.

Both of mine are 20 caliber centerfire. Truth be told, I don't know much about the Cooper RF's.

I have spent a bit of time in the past on RFC. Received a lot of help setting up a 4 H rifle for my sons. That was the good part of my experience there. The bad part was what I consider to be 'group thinking'. RFC has a HUGE number of members. However, anyone who did not share the same opinions held by a VERY small number of core members was either driven off or banned. Could be that those dozen or so individuals are not Wilson fans so that effects the general consensus over there.

I was not banned there. I sent Sophia (I think) a PM and requested not to be a member a few years ago. Plenty of great folks on that site. Just very controlled/regulated by a select few. My opinion only, to be sure.

One of the problems with being online is that anyone can be an expert with zero first-hand experience.

One thing I would wonder: Are the Wilson barrels used by Cooper spec'd any differently than the ones sold by the truck full to mail order outfits? I have no idea but, I do wonder about it.

Would I order a Wilson for a custom build? No. If I ordered a new Cooper today, would I ask for something other than a Wilson? No.
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