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  #21  
Old 10-12-2017, 07:30 PM
South Pender South Pender is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bayou City Boy View Post
There are far too many satisfied long-time and new Cooper owners in the world to buy what you're pushing lock, stock, and barrel (pun intended). To come here or anywhere and push an agenda that tries to say otherwise........ My only question is what's your real agenda?
That's just silly. I'm not "pushing" anything. My sole purpose in starting the thread was to learn what Cooper owners have experienced accuracy-wise, and most of the posts have been informative.
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  #22  
Old 10-12-2017, 07:38 PM
South Pender South Pender is offline
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Originally Posted by ramos View Post
South Pender, there were a number of posts that offered exactly what you were looking for. That is, accuracy reports based on actual experience.

If you look back at my previous post, the numbers speak for themselves. I could swap my barrels for other brands that may be 'more stellar' and match my current accuracy but I doubt I could improve that accuracy.

Both of mine are 20 caliber centerfire. Truth be told, I don't know much about the Cooper RF's.

I have spent a bit of time in the past on RFC. Received a lot of help setting up a 4 H rifle for my sons. That was the good part of my experience there. The bad part was what I consider to be 'group thinking'. RFC has a HUGE number of members. However, anyone who did not share the same opinions held by a VERY small number of core members was either driven off or banned. Could be that those dozen or so individuals are not Wilson fans so that effects the general consensus over there.

I was not banned there. I sent Sophia (I think) a PM and requested not to be a member a few years ago. Plenty of great folks on that site. Just very controlled/regulated by a select few. My opinion only, to be sure.

One of the problems with being online is that anyone can be an expert with zero first-hand experience.

One thing I would wonder: Are the Wilson barrels used by Cooper spec'd any differently than the ones sold by the truck full to mail order outfits? I have no idea but, I do wonder about it.

Would I order a Wilson for a custom build? No. If I ordered a new Cooper today, would I ask for something other than a Wilson? No.
That's interesting, ramos. I've been active on RFC for several years and have learned a ton in that time. I haven't experienced the groupthink phenomenon that you mention, at least to any great extent. However, there are more than 100 subforums on RFC, and this problem may exist on some of them--perhaps ones that I don't go on to--and not on others. I spend most of my time on RFC on the Anschutz subforum, as I own a number of Annies, and there are some real Anschutz experts that post regularly with detailed information on trigger adjustments, extraction and ejection problems, bedding tips, etc.

There are one or two guys who post regularly on the Cooper subforum whose hair bursts into flames at the mention of anything negative about Cooper rifles. However, over time, the picture that has emerged about Cooper M57M (the rimfire) accuracy has been mixed, as I mentioned earlier. If there's been a consensus it would be, I think, that, in general, Cooper M57M accuracy is not quite up to Anschutz accuracy. This was part of my motivation for starting this thread--to find out how owners have found the accuracy of their centerfire Cooper rifles.

Last edited by South Pender; 10-12-2017 at 08:45 PM.
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  #23  
Old 10-12-2017, 08:22 PM
TinMan TinMan is offline
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BCB and all, maybe some more info on Wilson, anecdotal as it is. Back in the early 90's, maybe '92, I got interested in ARs and built up two A2 style models from parts kits. One was a 20" HBAR and the other was a 16"heavy barreled carbine like a XM177. I built both with AR Wilson barrels, both were 1:9 twist. Both shoot fine for iron sighted rifles. Shortly thereafter, Wilson barrels were no longer available to my dealer, as Wilson's production of military barrels was sold out. However, they still made their regular' match' barrels for bolt action rifles.

In mid '94, I saw that Winchester was offering a M70 Heavy Varmint Stainless Steel rifle in 223 Rem with a 1:9 twist. When I inquired, I was told that that model and caliber used a Wilson Match grade barrel. I believe Wilson also made some of the barrels for that rifle in 243 Win. Both those rifles shoot very well, <0.5 MOA.
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  #24  
Old 10-12-2017, 09:43 PM
ramos ramos is offline
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South Pender, FWIW, almost all of my time on RFC was in the CZ section.

Anschutz RF? Have never shot one but would really, really, REALLY like to. How do they compare to a Cooper RF? I have no clue but would love to hear from those who do.
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  #25  
Old 10-12-2017, 10:42 PM
Swift220 Swift220 is offline
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Well I'm going to answer your question about my Cooper M57. It's a fluted barrel LVT 22LR. It has the varmint type stock and a medium HB. I don't shot it a lot because it's boring shooting one hole at 65 yards over and over. It will do this with 4 types of ammo but the best is Lapua Midas+ then Lapua Center-X.
I really wish that I shot competition because it just don't get any better. Like I said, it gets boring. I bought it because of the test target, just one hole nearly un-measureable. It didn't disappoint. And the only time it has fliers with Lapua Midas+, it's me without a doubt.
Maybe I just got lucky, but it is one awesome rimfire. Btw, if the wind's not blowing, it will shoot sub 1/2 moa at 100 yards. I have shot ragged 1hole 5 shot groups a 100 before. It's a sweetheart.

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  #26  
Old 10-12-2017, 11:11 PM
South Pender South Pender is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ramos View Post
South Pender, FWIW, almost all of my time on RFC was in the CZ section.

Anschutz RF? Have never shot one but would really, really, REALLY like to. How do they compare to a Cooper RF? I have no clue but would love to hear from those who do.
The available evidence on rimfire accuracy would appear to put Anschutz at the top, I believe, among factory rifles, at least among those that are still manufactured. I base this on hundreds of threads over the years. The few threads that have attempted to compare Anschutz accuracy with that of the Cooper M57M seem to point to slightly better accuracy, on average, for the Annies. This isn't to say that every Annie will beat a Cooper; I'm speaking of long-term averages here. Many Cooper shooters have enjoyed good accuracy from their M57Ms, but your chances of purchasing a real hummer .22LR are better, in my opinion, with Anschutz than with Cooper.

There are a couple of factors to consider. First, the Anschutz rifles built on their match 54 action are the best--better than the Annies made on the less-expensive 64 action. They are now making sporters, silhouette models, all-out 3-P and prone target rifles, and even all-out BR rifles on that action. This is a rimfire action that Bill Calfee rates highly. Among factory target rifles, their stiffest competition, among Olympic-class shooters, would come from Walther and several other European makers like Bleiker and Grünig & Elmiger. Among factory sporters and target models, the older Walther KKM, KKJ, and KKMS rifles were in the same class as the better Annies. (Walther no longer make rimfire sporters.) I have a Walther KKMS that will shoot right alongside my Annies.

BRNO and its successor CZ have made excellent rimfire sporters, but the consensus is that their accuracy potential--again on average--is slightly below that of Anschutz.

Second, as with centerfire rifles, most shooters wanting the best possible accuracy in a rimfire rifle will go to a custom barrel--again from the usual suspects, Krieger, Benchmark, Lilja, Shilen, Bartlein, Hart. Lilja barrels are particularly well-liked by rimfire accuracy enthusiasts. This doesn't necessarily mean, however, that just any Lilja barrel will beat a factory rimfire barrel. A number of years ago, I set out to build a super-accurate rifle on a Sako P94S action and replaced the factory heavy barrel with a heavy Lilja, which my gunsmith chambered with the Win. 52D match chamber. The results were really not significantly better than what I'd got with the Sako factory barrel, and so, on my gunsmith's advice, I had him pull the Lilja barrel, set the original Sako barrel back an inch and rechamber it with the same Win. 52D chamber. He also fit a Jewell trigger to it. After that, it really did shoot up to my initial hopes, averaging about .30" over many 5-shot groups at 50 yards with the ammo it liked best (Lapus Midas+).

I don't know whether there's much interest in rimfire on this forum, but I might mention that this Sako P94S is currently in my gunsmith's hands in a custom project. I've had him octagon the barrel, fashion custom scope mounts, make a bottom-metal unit with hinged floorplate (a modification of a Ted Blackburn unit made for the Win. 52), and do additional metalwork on it. I'll have the stocker, who is also an engraver, engrave a squirrel on the floorplate. For anyone interested, here are a couple of pics of the work in progress:



It will be stocked from the Exhibition-grade English walnut blank in the pic below:



I realize that I've taken this thread way off-topic, and, to those who are offended, I apologize.

Last edited by South Pender; 10-14-2017 at 11:34 PM.
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  #27  
Old 10-12-2017, 11:20 PM
chuckshooter chuckshooter is offline
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I own four coopers, 1 20vt, 2 20tac,s and 1 204 ,, all model 21's and love them. as had been said before, I wish they would use a 100yds for their targets. I think that it is a little tight to say we make such a great product that we are going to send a target along, opps, it's only 47 yards but what the heck it's the best we can do
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  #28  
Old 10-12-2017, 11:23 PM
ramos ramos is offline
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Pictures. If there is one thing we all agree on around here, we love pictures! Be sure and show us that rifle when it is done.

As to the CF question, I simply can't imagine that you would be unhappy with a bone stock Cooper rifle from an accuracy standpoint. Give one a try!
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  #29  
Old 10-13-2017, 02:14 AM
montdoug montdoug is offline
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My good friend Larry owns these two Coopers, top one is a Western Classic in .17 HMR and the bottom a .20 VarTarg. In shooting alongside him I can assure you that accuracy is not a problem for either of them in any way! The only thing I'd worry about if they were mine is that I'd find a way to damage the beautiful things somehow !!



I have to say too that I did have a Cooper .17 MachIV that was in that 1999 to 2000 period when someone at Cooper goofed up in the new .17 MachIV reamer they ordered to replace the older one they dropped and broke. A number of guys that bought rifles then had issues with em including me. What I learned about Cooper through that period is that they actually honor that 1/2 inch accuracy guarantee in a way that sure impressed the heck outta me! It was a pain sending the rifle back and forth but they were trying so hard I never complained and they replaced barrels, kept at it, and all with a smile till I was shooting the sub half inch groups they promised. I don't know how a guy could ask for better service then that. Cooper gets a big thumbs up from me!
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  #30  
Old 10-13-2017, 03:02 AM
South Pender South Pender is offline
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Sounds as though Cooper customer service is pretty good. For me, living in Canada, however, any return to Cooper for a new barrel would take a long time for me to get it back; getting guns across the border each way is quite a hassle. It's the ITAR regime. You need dealers on both sides of the border working together with the right import/export licenses, and the wait time is considerable. I ordered a Dakota Varminter several weeks ago, and, working with the import/export guys, I won't actually see it here in Canada for another 2-3 months. There is a big-time Cooper dealer in Canada (I think he has something like 80-100 in stock, and I believe he's the only Cooper dealer in the country), but he has to work with his US FFL person to bring them in, and it's slow. It was this Canadian dealer through whom I arranged to have the Dakota imported.

Last edited by South Pender; 10-13-2017 at 03:13 AM.
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