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  #91  
Old 04-01-2014, 09:05 PM
20 EXTREME 20 EXTREME is offline
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Originally Posted by bowfisher View Post
1. YOU don't have any pressure testing equipment. Still. Seems it's OK for YOU to determine pressures on your 20 EXTREME, by case stretch and primer evaluation but when someone does it on their case, they're being " unsafe". I don't think that you can find any where that I stated that. If you can please copy and paste.OK, now we've established that YOU are the only competent hand loader on this site. ( or sight, in Canada...)

2. The guys that have this chambering are getting the best performance out of AA2200, not H4198. They are shooting 32gr bullets, which is a good fit for this size case, IMO. The intent was to gain some performance over the VT and have a case that could be just neck-sized for multiple firings. The point that I was trying to make is that there will be very little or no gain in performance over the 20 Vartarg with the 32 grain bullets and AA 2200 in the 20 SCC. Western powders data shows that the 20 Vartarg has more than enough capacity to reach maximum working pressures with that combination. Adding more powder in a case that holds 1/2 grain more will not gain much velocity without increasing pressures. I believe that the 20 VT can be just neck sized for multiple firings as well.

I didn't see where anyone challenged you and claimed that they could shoot a 40gr bullet faster than your beloved 20EXTREME. A 222 based case should have a size-able edge there.. I didn't suggest that anyone claimed that they could shoot a 40 grain bullet faster than my 20 EXTREME. I would have to be an idiot to suggest that. What I did say was that I suspected that AA 2200 would safely get about 3400 f/s with the 40 grain bullets. That is very good performance from the 20 VT and will likely be mirrored by the 20 SCC.

3. Thanks for the measuring lesson. I had NO IDEA that the .200 datum line was ahead of the extractor groove !! That changes EVERYTHING! You better PM Bill K also and let him know that he's supposed to measure his case BEFORE and after he fires them to check for expansion. He's a little slow so I'm sure this fundamental process is beyond his grasp.

All joking aside, I do believe you can get a decent feel for pressures by measuring the .200 line. Point being, this isn't absolute between cases, different shaped cases act differently. Shoulder angle, shoulder shape, lenght-width ratio, rate of powder used, are just some of the variables that come to mind, and all become a factor.

4. Yes you did badmouth Nosler brass. But by the same token, getting over 4200fps with less than 21 grs of powder is QUITE the achievement !! I will give you that! Maybe Win brass IS better....I better look into it. Bill K coined the phrase "good Nosler Brass. I posted Quote:Good luck with the "good" Nosler brass. If that constitutes bad mouthing Nosler brass than I guess I am guilty as charged. I didn't even say that Winchester brass was betterthan Nosler brass.

5. I don't know if there was a lovers spat gone wrong or what, but you sure have a crush on some folks. I'm past the grade school age propensities of taking sides, I'll call them as I see them, thank you very much. Nobody is perfect and sometimes people just can't get along, heck I'm best taken in small doses, I understand that, but this vitriol and thinly based hatred for specific folks and for any 20 cal case that isn't the 20EXTREME is tiresome. These are your observations and I assure you that they have no basis in fact. I only posted what I believe and that is that the 20 SCC will have little or no advantagew over the 20 Vartarg which is a fine case in its own right.

I don't remember anyone on this site ( or sight, in Canada) calling you an idiot, but maybe a good look in the mirror would be applicable at this juncture. " Best check yoself , fore you wreck yourself", as they say in the hood. They did their best over on the Small Caliber Club.

Have a nice day.
Too bad you are taking things out of context and saying things to try to discredit me rather than making this a constructive excersise. You told me once that you did not like the 20 VT because of the Remington brass. Others claim that they have no problem with the Remington brass. I will throw out a challenge to you or perhaps Bill K, or BillK20VT. Get some Remington 17 FB brass and neck it up to 20 VT. Measure it at the 0.200" datum, preferably with a micrometer, load it up with a 32 V-max at Western Powders starting load of AA 2200 and fire it in both the 20 VT and 20 SCC. Measure the case at the datum and reduce or increase the load, in small increments, to the point that there is Zero case stretch at that point. You will then have similar pressures to the loads I run in the 20 EXT. When you get ahold of some Nosler brass do the same and carefully note the velocities achieved.

Once you have established that base line then work up to Western Powders maximum loads and report your measurements and velocities achieved. At that point you will likely have measurable Web expansion that can only be accuratly measured with a blade micrometer. Anything over 0.0003" is high but 0.0005" would still be safe. This and multiple firings of the two brass will determine if one is "better than the other" and if over 4100 fps is "Safe in the 20 SCC".

I have drawn up the 17 FB case ,with actual measurements from a new case, a Fire formed 20 Vt case and my estimation of a fireformed 20SCC with 1/2 grain greater capacity than the 20 VT. I only included the 20 EXTREME for comparison. It actually holds 3 grains more H 4198 than the 20 VT.
[IMG][/IMG]

I look forward to the results of the comparison test. If all I get is more of the same comments that is fine too but will prove nothing. If my observations and comments are proven to be wrong I will be the first to congratulate the designer of the 20 SCC and the Nosler brass.
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  #92  
Old 04-01-2014, 09:59 PM
Bill K Bill K is offline
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Default 20 VarTarg

Sorry 20 Extreme I am not into challenge's. I have told you what I measure, etc. How my 20 SCC is working and that is it. You enjoy your firearms, loads, etc. I will do like wise. Safe and sane reloading, been doing it since around 1953 in various cartridges and have never had any issues and do not intend too, either. Have a good time with our shooting sports, varmint hunting and how ever you like to shoot. Bill K
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  #93  
Old 04-18-2014, 05:21 PM
HillbillySniper HillbillySniper is offline
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I have a new Krieger 12 twist 20 cal rem varmint barrel and a rem 700 B prefix 223 bolt face action. May just build me a new 20 Vartarg or 20 Tac!!!!
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  #94  
Old 04-18-2014, 05:52 PM
Bill K Bill K is offline
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Default 20 VarTarg

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Originally Posted by HillbillySniper View Post
I have a new Krieger 12 twist 20 cal rem varmint barrel and a rem 700 B prefix 223 bolt face action. May just build me a new 20 Vartarg or 20 Tac!!!!
You would be happy with either one. They are both very fine 20 caliber cartridges, like some of the other 20's. Everyone has a choice and can have a blast with them, from paper to varmints. Enjoy you choice and go for it. Bill K I should add that the 17 and 20's are addictive.
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  #95  
Old 04-18-2014, 08:42 PM
HillbillySniper HillbillySniper is offline
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Oh I know how the 20s are. I have been hooked on them since 2004 when I first fired a friends Vartarg. I have had 20 tacs 204s 20vts and 20ppc. Also had one summer of testing a 20br fast twist. 20 Vartarg and 20 PPC are two of my favorites
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  #96  
Old 04-18-2014, 09:07 PM
Bill K Bill K is offline
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Default 20 VarTarg

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Originally Posted by HillbillySniper View Post
Oh I know how the 20s are. I have been hooked on them since 2004 when I first fired a friends Vartarg. I have had 20 tacs 204s 20vts and 20ppc. Also had one summer of testing a 20br fast twist. 20 Vartarg and 20 PPC are two of my favorites
Then I sure do not have to tell you how much fun they are.. We have a great sport/hobby.. Bill K
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  #97  
Old 05-03-2014, 10:45 PM
stubblejumper stubblejumper is offline
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I finally got around to shooting my Cooper 21 in 20 Vartarg. Using 18gr of R-7 in Nosler brass, behind the 32gr v-max, fire forming is delivering groups under 1/2moa, with the best under 3/8 moa. Seating depth is very sensitive, and best accuracy, is with the bullets just kissing the lands. I have not chrongraphed any loads yet.
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  #98  
Old 05-03-2014, 11:28 PM
Bill K Bill K is offline
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Default 20 VarTarg

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Originally Posted by stubblejumper View Post
I finally got around to shooting my Cooper 21 in 20 Vartarg. Using 18gr of R-7 in Nosler brass, behind the 32gr v-max, fire forming is delivering groups under 1/2moa, with the best under 3/8 moa. Seating depth is very sensitive, and best accuracy, is with the bullets just kissing the lands. I have not chrongraphed any loads yet.
You, like everyone I know, will really enjoy that cartridge. Keep us posted on your success and maybe photo's of critters taken. Bill K
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  #99  
Old 05-18-2014, 04:46 AM
HillbillySniper HillbillySniper is offline
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New 20 Vartarg in the making. I have on hand a Krieger 12 twist Rem Varmint Contour Barrel, a Mcmillan HTG Marine sniper m40a1 Stock, and a Rem 700 B serial number late 70"s 223 bolt face action. This will be my third 20 Vartarg. It should be like my others Eyeball Accurate!!!!!!

Last edited by HillbillySniper; 05-18-2014 at 04:49 AM.
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  #100  
Old 05-18-2014, 02:09 PM
philip philip is offline
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Sold my Cooper 20VT to George a while back, loved it,i hated the brass.....

Now that Lapua is making .221 brass I`ll be building a .20-221AI essentially Brad`s .20SCC.

I asked about this cartridge years back and a couple members here said they had built one or two and that they performed well...

I just love the 40* shoulder on cases and have many with it, so I guess one more can`t hurt...

I`d probably be doing another .20VT, but Brad has had dies made up for his cartridge, so off I go.....
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