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  #11  
Old 08-24-2014, 06:12 PM
Daryl Daryl is offline
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My .17 AH averages 45fps for 2/10's gr. Lil'Gun increase or decrease.
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  #12  
Old 08-25-2014, 05:44 AM
georgeld georgeld is offline
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Dean2:

You mentioned wads and such. I put a bp patch into the face of my first one and wrecked it. The next one, powder granules went thru the film face and ruined it. A friend and I borrowed another from a board member here and he hit a wire and wrecked that one. I've seen around half dozen with bullet holes in the cans. Some destroyed, other's still worked yet.

Like I said above: "There's a reason they put the whole thing in front of the gun" So they can sell more of them, that's a fact folks.

Yes, WHEN they read, they're amazingly accurate. I had trouble's getting more than half to read though. Tried everything they suggested and still missed quite a few. That's why I tried using the .54 M/L, bigger bullet I figured it would 'see' fly over. Never thought of the patch hitting the face, damn!!
Now I've got a CEDM2 and haven't been out in 2 1/2yrs. Gathering dust along with everything else, me included!!
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Last edited by georgeld; 08-25-2014 at 05:46 AM. Reason: typo
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  #13  
Old 08-25-2014, 09:51 AM
wally bennett wally bennett is offline
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I put my crony 9 ft away from the muzel then using my balistic calculator work it back to get the muzel velocity
Wally
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  #14  
Old 08-25-2014, 12:55 PM
Chickenthief Chickenthief is offline
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To be fair i have 0 experiense with the 17 Hornet (yet!), but i do have some with QuickLoad. So far it reflects the real world fairly accurate and i have yet to se a 1% increase in powder get me a 10% increase in speed.

Here is a QuickLoad rendering of LilGun in the 17 Hornet and i see no unexplainable speed jumps but rather a steady increase.



300ft in speed with a 20 grain bullet (3600-3300fps) equals @91ft/lbs or 0.1169BTU.
0.1grain of LilGun equals 0.0251BTU
So your JFK magical bullet not only harness 100% of the added powders energy for speed but somehow gains wast amounts of energy from nowhere?

You might not be aware of it but something else is at play here!
Slight variasion in case capacity, larger flash holes or what not, but it is not just up to 0.1 grain of powder for the bullet to gain that much speed.

Last edited by Chickenthief; 08-25-2014 at 01:24 PM. Reason: miscalculations
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  #15  
Old 08-25-2014, 01:34 PM
Dean2 Dean2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leadchucker62 View Post
Good day everyone:
I picked up a chrony f1 master to help with my load development.
are these accurate and reliable.
the reason I ask is that I was doing some load testing with my 17 hornet.
using lilgun powder with loads from 9.5 gr - 10gr in .1gr increments.
shooting 4 shot groups.
my average fps at 9.5 gr was 3346
My average fps at 9.6gr was 3642
Thats quite a jump in velocity for .1gr

Any input is greatly appreciated
Z

My most accurate load was 10gr with a speed of 3849fps with the lowest es of 43 fps.

CT

Here are the OPs Chronographed results. As you can see, they do NOT match the Quickload projections. He is getting 3642 at 9.6 grains vs. QL at 10 grains and 3849 fps with 10 grains, which according to QL is should take 10.9 grains to get that speed, so obviously there is more at work here than just the powder load.

Specific gun, primer, case make, capacity, flashhole size, barrel length all come into play. That said, in my experience very small capacity cases build speed and pressure much faster than load programs calculate they should.

That is why I rely on the measured speed to estimate pressure and if I was getting 3850 fps I would be concerned about the amount of pressure my loads were developing. I would be measuring case rim and expansion just ahead of the web and watching closely for loose primer pockets. However, since this is the most accurate load I would load ten cases multiple times and shoot them to ensure I wasn't running too hot.
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  #16  
Old 08-25-2014, 02:00 PM
Lenard Lenard is offline
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Default Keep from shooting the Chrony

I measure up 6" on the steel rods and put a piece of masking tape across from one to another. Then I take a marker pen and put a black mark in the center. The bullet of course will go thru the screens 1 1/2" below the mark and never jepordize the Chrony or other brand. It also helps keep one aligned and helps eliminate faults.
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  #17  
Old 08-25-2014, 02:55 PM
Daryl Daryl is offline
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Ackley, Gibb's and others have sugested the ultimate test of pressure is brass longevity.

Mr. Gibbs cautions handloaders as follows:
"I would certainly mention the fact that loading will vary from rifle to rifle and my advice has always been to start three or four grains under maximum loads and proceed from there, using 'good case life and repeated loading' as a final controlling factor in working out safe maximum loads."

I will add to this, that some cases more than others show problems in pressure & headspace rather dramatically and quite quickly - one such case is the Hornet case due to being probably the VERY weakest relative to any other cases in use today. In this Hornet, longevity is quite a good indicator of useable pressure. If you get 10 to 30 loadings, great! The larger the chamber in your particular rifle, the fewer loads you will get, at any pressure level due to overworking the brass.
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Last edited by Daryl; 08-25-2014 at 03:00 PM.
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  #18  
Old 08-26-2014, 12:37 AM
leadchucker62 leadchucker62 is offline
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Default f1 chrony

good day everyone and thank you all for your replies.
i have all of my notes with me this time so i can give a little more info
here goes;;
lil gun powder
20gr vmax
cci 400 primer
hornady once fired,full length sized brass(same lot#)pockets cleaned and uniformed.
brass is untrimmed 25 cases averaged 1.342"oal
all loads are weighed on rcbs505.
coal is 1.720"
gun is a cz527 american with 150 rnds through it.
groups shot were 4 shots and barrel cleaned after every 4 shot group.
9.5 gr avg 3346 es51 sd16
9.6gr avg 3642 es64 sd19
9.7gr avg 3734 es81 sd30
9.8gr avg 3721 es46 sd13
9.9gr avg 3810 es71 sd26
10.0 gr avg3849 es43 sd15

i used 4 shot groups because of the pitiful supply situation here in canada.
i got 6 boxs of factory ammo and a set of hornady dies with my gun.
other guys up here didn't get the same deal and now their guns are sittin in the closet waiting.with their good brass laying out in the cornfield somewhere.
after closer inspection of the targets i'm going to say 9.8 was my smallest group .378" @ 50 meters.
i waited 1 minute between shots and 10 mins between groups.
i think i'll go back to the 1680 i like it a little better.


again thank you all


Z
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  #19  
Old 08-26-2014, 02:15 AM
GLWenzl GLWenzl is offline
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I have never really had any worse experience with lil gun than any other powder and it is a favorite in my #1 in a 218 bee running a 40 gr bullet at 3750-3800 fps depending on temps. That said I have read here so many issues and even wrecked guns and some will never use lil gun again that I feel like lil gun is anything but predictable steady increase as ql predicts. Now that said I have used ql where it was amazingly spot on in many of my loads and not too far off with others. Lil gun just seems like it can go from safe to unsafe quicker than any other powder used. I love it in my bee (for accuracy) but seldom found favor with it in small calibers especially the 17s.

On the chrony I have the green one since around 2000. It has performed great for me with really no issues other than the plastic sky screens don't last in the sun and have had to replace them on several occasions. Mostly 17 cal bullets. No regrets, it don't owe me a dime
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  #20  
Old 08-26-2014, 05:44 AM
georgeld georgeld is offline
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Daryl, Alex, Ray, Doug etc:
You guys that have been around a long time. Did you have/play
with a Hornet way back in the 50's n 60's??

What was the vel back then? Rancher had one we shot a very few times as he didn't have much ammo. Seems it was a single shot of some kind w/oct barrel. He said velocity was real slow then. Of course powders have advanced so much it's shocking to compare.

Nothing like what you guys are quoting. Seems like he was talking around 2000fps then. hard to recall for sure more than 50yrs later when I can't recall what I had for lunch!!

Thanks, good post, lot's of info. No, I don't have a Hornet, doubt I will now. Too many others collecting dust that NEED to be shot.
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