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Old 08-27-2014, 05:39 PM
wally bennett wally bennett is offline
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Default Dirty powder

Henry doing well with his CZ 17H now getting used to the drop ect had about 70 up the tube now cleans it after outing but is concerned about the black patches that realy takes a lot of patches to clean he is using KG Copper remover ( i use that myself) so is the Factory ammo very dirty or is it just the newness of the gun.
Wally
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Old 08-27-2014, 06:24 PM
TinMan TinMan is offline
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Did he clean it real well before ever shooting it? The CZs have lots of rust preventative in the bores for shipping. To me, powder solvents work pretty well for that, especially Kroil oil. Let them soak in for a while to dissolve the carbon fowling. Some Cu solvents, like Sweet's, don't work very well on carbon. I would suggest alternating carbon and Cu solvents if he is having trouble cleaning. Some ball powders especially have coatings that leave heavy carbon deposits.
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Old 08-27-2014, 06:30 PM
wally bennett wally bennett is offline
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[quote=TinMan;207048]Did he clean it real well before ever shooting it? The CZs have lots of rust preventative in the bores for shipping. To me, powder solvents work pretty well for that, especially Kroil oil. Let them soak in for a while to dissolve the carbon fowling. Some Cu solvents, like Sweet's, don't work very well on carbon. I would suggest alternating carbon and Cu solvents if he is having trouble cleaning. Some ball powders especially have coatings that leave heavy carbon deposits.[/QUOTE

He took it to a wrexham gunsmith who cleaned out all the crud that CZ put in their barrels and it shoots great but all this black is worrying him he never had this black in his last 3 new guns all CZ,s.
Wally
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Old 08-27-2014, 07:42 PM
L Cazador L Cazador is offline
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Default dirty powder

Wally, I got the same from my CZ 527 with AA1680 and AA2200 powder. These double base powders leave a lot of carbon deposits. The difficult part is the carbon is layered on top copper deposits so you need a solvent that will do both. I use Bore Shine with Sweets as an accelerator. First I use two patches soaked with Sweets to lubricate the bore and soften the copper. Then I clean with a copper brush soaked in Bore Shine, two strokes for every shot fired usually cleans right down to the bare metal per my bore scope. Lastly I twirl a 20 cal. copper brush soaked with Bore Shine to clean any carbon at the end of the chamber. And finally I run two patches soaked with Hydrogen peroxide to neutralize and coagulate the solution in the bore. Dry patch until patches are clear and then run a patch with Marvel oil to prevent rust and condition the bore. This cleaning process has worked for me for many years.
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Old 08-27-2014, 10:03 PM
Chickenthief Chickenthief is offline
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The "problem" with a 17 is the bore area vs circumference. For short there is more wall than bore in the small ones so they tend to mess up more. A 17 HH will foul more than a 22 H given the same amount of powder.

It is a quirk we have to live with.

Another thing is the fact that powder burns cleaner as pressure goes up.

Last edited by Chickenthief; 08-27-2014 at 10:06 PM.
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Old 08-28-2014, 02:47 AM
georgeld georgeld is offline
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Sounds like you guys enjoy cleaning rifles much more than shooting them.
Damn, I've never fought 'em like that ever.

The cure?? And a very easy one at that.
Blue Wonder Gun Cleaner, ten strokes with a brush soaked with it, take a ten minute break while it soaks. Ten more strokes then just patch it clean n dry. Once done, run an oiled patch on all metal it's gotten onto and you're done.

Sure a whole lot easier than even reading about the hassle you guys go thru.
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Old 08-28-2014, 10:32 AM
wally bennett wally bennett is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by georgeld View Post
Sounds like you guys enjoy cleaning rifles much more than shooting them.
Damn, I've never fought 'em like that ever.

The cure?? And a very easy one at that.
Blue Wonder Gun Cleaner, ten strokes with a brush soaked with it, take a ten minute break while it soaks. Ten more strokes then just patch it clean n dry. Once done, run an oiled patch on all metal it's gotten onto and you're done.

Sure a whole lot easier than even reading about the hassle you guys go thru.
On his first CZ 223 he had a bad barrel that just would not shoot straight and lost its zero evry time it whent out the retailer kept saying its not the gun its you so he got other people to shoot it but it was the same so eventualy he got in touch with the wholesaler and sent it back.
The gunsmith phoned up henry and blamed him for not cleaning it properly and told him you have wore out the barrel (in 3 weeks and 200 shots!!!!)
He was lucky enough to meet the Rep for Edgar Brothers in a local gunshop (not the one he bought it through) and complaned to him the rep told him to send it back to the wholesaler with his name on.
He did this and the company told him it was one if a faulty batch of barrels and did he want a new gun or was he happy if they re-barreled this one. He told them a new barrel was fine.
When it was returned it had been cleaned and shot and its a tack driver now.
THIS TIME HE ASKED THE WHOLESALER HOW TO CLEAN IT and followed that advise but was still getting black patches so annother smith cleaned it for him using KG Copper remover and its shoots great but i have never seen patches this black even after three wet ones and 8/9 dry patches.
Thats the reason for this post we have not used any other shells other than the factory ammo so is anybody getting this using factory ammo only.
Wally
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  #8  
Old 08-28-2014, 01:42 PM
Alex Alex is offline
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Default Depends on the powder

AA1680 is horribly dirty. Doesn't seem to affect the accuracy, however. N120 is very clean.


Difference is 20 patches of Butches or Montana Extreme for 1680 and 5 for N-120.


Alex
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  #9  
Old 08-28-2014, 02:26 PM
Chickenthief Chickenthief is offline
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I use KG-1 wich is supposed to be a Carbon Remover but i have noticed that patches come out blue because of copper.
On the other hand using KG-12 copper remover, i feel like a blind man that has finished a dump and starts to wipe. How do i know when i'm finished? Patches shows no colour change so i tend to clean a little more than i feel needed and hope i'm right.
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Old 08-28-2014, 02:40 PM
wally bennett wally bennett is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chickenthief View Post
I use KG-1 wich is supposed to be a Carbon Remover but i have noticed that patches come out blue because of copper.
On the other hand using KG-12 copper remover, i feel like a blind man that has finished a dump and starts to wipe. How do i know when i'm finished? Patches shows no colour change so i tend to clean a little more than i feel needed and hope i'm right.
I use KG1 or KG12 or butches bore shine or Forest foam i dont use the same one twice in a row i also use 120 and once we have enough fired case,s and i can find some dies i will be using 120.Cci400 srp and 20 V/M.
That combiation is perfect in my 17A/H so wont be far out in his 17H so a smaller charge in the 17H case and worked up should be fine.
I will try the 17H cases in my adjusted 17A/H die cause all the cases have been fired in the chamber they are going back in so i would think that a full lenght die would neck size only on the 17H.
Come to see us both in hospital please LOL

Wally
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