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Old 01-15-2013, 05:16 AM
L461 L461 is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: NSW AUS
Posts: 317
Default 17 Mach 1V

Well I have regressed back into the sub calibre world (first17 Rem was accquired in 1978)with the purchase of a Sako L461 in 17 Mach 1V and I must admit I know very little about it.

I was hoping for some guidance from the astute members here,

Firstly to form the cases from 222 cases do I start with a 221 fireball form and trim die , I tried running the cases straight into the #1 die but ended up with badly crimped shoulders, followed by a Redding #1 form die then the 17 Mach form trim die and finally the full length Mach 1V die.?

Secondly I was able to grab some 20 grain Z-Max cheapish and was hoping to use Benchmark.Am I on the right track here.

Thanks for your help.
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Old 01-15-2013, 08:15 AM
L579 L579 is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 6

To size down to 221 Fireball I use the Redding form die 90101 then use the 83101 form and trim die. They are then annealed then switched over to the CH4D 17 Mach IV form dies I have. Then cleaned and annealed. Full length re sized and expanded, trim to length and neck-turned. Primer pockets uniformed and deburred. Fire formed using 25gr HP. After fireformed ,cleaning and resizing the case. they then have a shallow expanding of the neck and re neck-turned as a clean up and to remove the donuts. I have more success using H4198 ( AR 2207 ) with the 20gr V-Max but use Benchmark with the 25gr V-Max

Last edited by L579; 01-15-2013 at 08:19 AM.
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Old 01-15-2013, 12:27 PM
cam_mackps2 cam_mackps2 is offline
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 33

I have had a brief play with my L461 17FB.
Using Rem 17FB brass, 7.5 primers, 18.5gr of Benchmark (BM2 for us Aussies) and 20gr Vmax. This is only the starting load from ADI.
Thrown together 50 so far to sight in and fireforming (on fur). Has proven to be explosive on rabbits (pics on AHN). Shoots flat and is clean burning. Barrel looks clean after 20shots, no unburnt powder like the 17Rem used to show.
The real load dev will start as soon as i get an IR kit for my CED.

I find it odd that ADI only has 2 loads listed for the 17M4 and both 25gr. I would just use the 17FB starting loads and work up.
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Old 01-15-2013, 01:02 PM
Alan in GA Alan in GA is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,576
Default got one....

I have a Pac Nor CZ 527 heavy varmint in 17 Mach IV. The 17 Fireball came out just months after but that's ok as my chamber is minimum fact we made a body die for my rifle as my Redding Dies won't size a case that has been fired in a larger chamber to fit in my chamber.
17 Fireball headspaces tight in my chamber.

I read that Remington has all but cast out their own 17 Fireball and that amazes me. It is so efficient, and feeds well compared to my 17 Ack Hnt rifle.

What 'makes it' and what 'fails' just doesn't make sense at times. The 17 Mach IV or Fireball could have been named the '17 Perfect' IMO.
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Old 01-15-2013, 02:55 PM
Chuck Miller Chuck Miller is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: North Texas - Gods Country
Posts: 3,782
Default 222-17mk4

Your components are fine, at least they are in the middle of what works. As for forming from 223/222 I have 2 sets of form dies, 222 to 221fb and 221fb to 17mk4. Using both sets I've not had a problem with the shoulders but I did have to run them through an K&M expander and neck turn. I also had to anneal before fireforming or I lost some cases to splitting necks and shoulders. The whole process is a PIA and I only bought the form sets because of the sketchy availability of 221fb brass and the fact that I have so many rifles built on that donor case. Upside is with those dies the issues of FB brass is moot, you have the ability to make what you want.
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Old 02-06-2013, 03:46 PM
Jim D Jim D is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Iowa
Posts: 506

As February is "17 Fireball Forming Month" for me.
I just started. I'm not saying my setup is perfect, but so far it's working.
I started with once fired Federal military 223. or 5.56 brass.

Deprimed,swaged, sized to 223, cleaned in ultrasonic.

First die was 221 trim die. Well lubed case using RCBS water soluable sizing lube.
I had a few wrinkles, and found my necks were crooked. So I'd size an 1/8", rotated the case 180, and sized. Seemed to keep the necks straight.

Made a jig to cut excess on my table saw. using an abrasive blade, I trim three at a time.

Inside chamfer, and expand the neck to fit the mandrel on my Forster trimmer and turn the outside neck to about .012.

I then use a Hornady .20 neck die without the guts, and size the neck.

Now I use the form and trim die for 17M4.

Time to trim, and turn again and anneal.

Maybe too many steps for some, but it seems to work for me.

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Old 02-06-2013, 03:49 PM
Jim D Jim D is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Iowa
Posts: 506

Oh and I forgot to throw in a final full length size to finish !

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Old 02-20-2013, 11:59 PM
Tom_Brush Tom_Brush is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 106

I have been experimenting with making .221 Fireball and .17 Mach 4 from .223 brass. I have been using fired range brass so cost is nothing but my time. If I ruin a case who cares. The initial brass has been laying in a box for years. It was already deprimed.

I started with using a Sinclair Expander Die to smooth out the necks. I then champfer inside and out. Next I used a .221 Fireball die with the guts removed to move the shoulder down. One thing that I noticed is that if I used the extended shell holder I could not size them. Using the standard shell holder allowed better leverage on the linkage of my Redding T7 press.

At this point you can cut the excess neck off. I do not have a .221 trim die. I have a Harbor Freight 2" cutoff saw coming so for now this is where I stop for .221 Fireball.

For the .17 Mach 4 I neckturn the .221 brass to .012. It does not matter that the .221 brass was not cut off since the first part of the brass will not touch the cutter. Only the bottom of the neck will be turned. (I ran the .221brass thru the neck expander before neck turning.)

Next I run the brass thru the #1 Redding form die for .221 to .19 using the standard shell holder. Then I run it thru the .17 Trim Die using the extended shell holder. The extended holder is necessary to get the case up into the die so it can be trimmed. I cut the excess neck with a hacksaw. Crude but until the cutoff saw arrives it will have to do. Besides I am too impatient to wait.

I then champfer the inside and outside of the case and run it thru the Mach 4 full length die. It is now ready to trim to length. After that I heat treat.

I have only made 40 Mach 4 cases so far and about 20 .221 Fireball cases. It was fun and a learning process trying to make the brass without expensive form dies for .223 to .221. I hope that I did not leave anything out.


Last edited by Tom_Brush; 02-21-2013 at 02:49 AM.
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Old 02-21-2013, 03:44 AM
Jim D Jim D is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Iowa
Posts: 506

It's fun in a painful sorta way !

I trim with my table saw and an abrasive blade.

Drilled three holes in a scrap piece of wood to act as a holder. The excess case sticks out ones side and the case base out the other. Set the fence and run my wooden holder between the blade and fence.
I know a picture would be better !

Next thing is to powerize my Forster trimmer!

Getting my annealer set up next.

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Old 02-21-2013, 06:22 AM
Bodei Bodei is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 232

Powered trimmer is required if you plan on doing many cases. I just bought the adapter for my Wilson trimmer.
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