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Old 09-22-2006, 01:54 PM
John C John C is offline
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Default .17 barrel life and throat erosion

I'm new to the world of subcalibers. I was wondering about barrel life and throat erosion.

I was wondering about barrell life and throat erosion in th .17s. It seems like the large case .17s like the 17 Mock4 and .17 Remington, would have less life than the Bee, Ackley Bee, and HeeBee or squirrel.

Any experience on this?

And, how far can the smaller rounds reach to kill a PD or coyote?

Finally, I've heard that improper cleaning can shorten barrel life faster than shooting. What is the improper way to clean a .17 barrel?

Thanks, John C.
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Old 09-22-2006, 07:14 PM
reed1911 reed1911 is offline
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Cleaning the .17's is really no different than any other caliber except that it seems you will see more accuracy degradation with crown or throat damage. Make sure to use a bore guide and make sure to break in the barrel properly. Don't mix moly and non-moly, choose one and stick with it.

Yes the larger cases will burn out a barrel faster, but if you keep the loads away from the absolute max they will likely outlast most shooters. Also keep in mind that high volume shooting with the larger case calibers will heat the barrel rather quickly and shooting a very hot barrel will wear it faster.

Distance is really going to depend on your ability, provided you can shoot accuratly and dope the wind, 350-400 on PD's and 250-300 on 'yotes is entirely possible.

Just a quick correction when you go looking for data, it is .17 Mach IV not Mock. A very good reference for the .17's is Todd Kindlers book "Sensational Seventeens" (http://www.woodchuckden.com/catalog/catalog.pdf) great book with loads of info for the subcal shooter, good site for other supplies as well. You also need a bit of paitence with the little guys, the small cases and itty-bitty bullets (for those of us club handed folks) can be a pain.
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Old 09-23-2006, 04:12 AM
RareBear RareBear is offline
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Default "And, how far can the smaller rounds reach to kill a PD or coyote?"

The longest .17 caliber shot on coyote that I have heard of was in the neighborhood of 650 yards by Blaine Eddy. As I recall he used the .17 Athena (.2" short BR case) and Kindler's 30 grain Gold.
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Last edited by RareBear; 09-23-2006 at 04:33 AM.
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Old 09-23-2006, 06:10 AM
foxhunter foxhunter is offline
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" how far can the smaller rounds reach to kill a PD or coyote? "

Depends on the skill of the shooter and the accuracy of the rifle , Blaine Eddy is very skilled at what he does.
a friend fairly regularly shoots bobcats at 400 plus yards with his 17 Remington, once in a while he will have one run off.

there is a point at which the 17 caliber bullet looses velocity and becomes unstable and starts to tumble. take a look at a ballistics chart, you will notice the bullet tends to be extremely flat to 300 yards, then the bullet acts like it fell off the table in energy and velocity.

I personally shot a coyote at 215 yards with a 17/30 carbine 25 gr hornady at 3725 fps, dropped like a sack of potato's. for me this was an long shot, I pride myself on calling them into pitchfork and hand to hand combat range.

personally I have never wore out a rifle barrel by shooting it, but have wore out a few with a cleaning rod. I no longer let the bore get so dirty it can't be cleaned with chemicals and a bore snake.
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Old 10-02-2006, 07:33 AM
georgeld georgeld is offline
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Fellow I used to hunt with shot a sitting coyote at just about 460yds one morning when we were calling. With a .17 Rem. Dog just hung up is all, it happens a lot when they've been called before, or spot you sitting out there in the open like this one did. Dropped like a rock, too far to tell whether he kicked or not. But, laid right there til we walked out and picked him up.

This same guy had a nasty, expensive experience another morning a few yrs before I met him. It'll take some imagination, so tip back, close your eye's and try to picture a sitting coyote's silhoette facing you straight on. Ok, got it??

Picture ONLY a horse's face straight on. Forget the body of the animal. Got that picture?

Both about the same size, big ears, fairly close to the same shape aren't they? Ok, put this on the horizon at first shooting light of a morning when it's a little bit hazy yet. Oh yeah, at 225yds or so.

Think you're smart enough to be able to tell the difference when you can only make out the silhoette of the shape??????? Don't fool yourself now.

There's a major lesson here guys, he'd shot over 500 coyotes at that time. His partner kept saying: "there he is, shoot, come on shoot him and such".
It cost the man $900 for the screw up.
I've been around horse's most of my life and seen them in such place's, and coyote's too. I'm not sure under the same circumstance's and conditions I might not do the same thing. Keep this in mind if/when you're out there where it could happen. I don't see where it's as dumb as the rancher acted when he told me and another guy about it the first time I'd heard of it. So I went directly to the guy that did the shooting and got his side of it. Seems logical to me.

When I was a kid, spent summers for 5-6 yrs working for a rancher where we hunted elk from the time I was about 12 til 17. Living on elk year around all his life and his estimation of having killed over 350 elk when this accident happened. We talked it over many times about being absolutely sure of your game and shot before pulling the trigger. Remember I was just a kid then and he was trying to keep me from making the same mistake he'd made.

In a creek bottom behind some deadfall logs, noise from the water. Too late in the day to be shooting iron sights. Trail along a hillside covered with tall pine's behind them, in a crossing where nearly all the elk that pass thru the area travel. He saw several lined behind each other and when he was sure of the shot, fired, same as he'd shot over 50 before this.

A horse started screaming and several men did too!! This was in 1949 when scopes, what there was of them were very sorry and he hadn't used one yet. Yep, he shot a horse out from under a hunter leading six others and two pack horse's following, my Dad was one of them behind him. The shot hit the front edge of the leather in front of the guys shin bone, a good double lung shot like he always taught me to shoot.
Horse was a buckskin, had red plaid rags tied in it's tail and mane best they could do in those days. He couldn't hear them talking over the creek's noise.

After years of trying to figure out what had happened. The best he could come up with was: "you do something enough times, often enough, and sooner or later you're gonna make a mistake, I figure this was my mistake, I'm telling you this as a lesson to keep you from making the same mistakes".

There's a whole lot more idiots in the woods nowdays than there was then and he had more experience than all of us put together and still screwed up. Think about it. Could this happen to you???
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  #6  
Old 10-02-2006, 08:36 AM
john john is offline
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Default re: 17 cal barrel life

The barrel life question. I asked that one a while ago. I got a few answers about the life expectancy of 17 Ack Hornet (which is what I was asking about). The answers I got varied a bit but I seem to remember the figure of about 6,000 shots to wear out a chamber but not necessarily a barrel. Kind of astonished me. I put the extra 17 s/s barrel I'd bought further back in the rifle safe, figured I'd not be needing it for a long time.
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Old 10-02-2006, 07:25 PM
Daryl Daryl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John C View Post
I'm new to the world of subcalibers. I was wondering about barrel life and throat erosion.

I was wondering about barrell life and throat erosion in th .17s. It seems like the large case .17s like the 17 Mock4 and .17 Remington, would have less life than the Bee, Ackley Bee, and HeeBee or squirrel.

Any experience on this?

And, how far can the smaller rounds reach to kill a PD or coyote?

Finally, I've heard that improper cleaning can shorten barrel life faster than shooting. What is the improper way to clean a .17 barrel?

Thanks, John C.
: I'd say you'll probably not extend the throat of a small case .17 until you've got about 8,000 rounds. That extension will probably be in the .01" to .150" range. With an initial no-leade chamber, this isn't going to be a problem and you should expect 10,000 rounds or so. This means not shooting the barrel until it's hot, or needing extensive cleaning to get any copper out. Well polished at the start and properly broken in, it may not copper at all. Factory barrels usually copper, some more than others, while PacNor barrels are famous for not coppering at all.
: I cleaned my first .17AB every 300 rounds, whether it needed it or not. It hardly ever coppered and what was there came out with powder solvent.
: My present CZ .17Rem barrel, shortened and re-chambered o .17AHdoes pick up a bit of copper around 60 shots so I clean it at 50 with very little copper that comes out easily.
: Bigger cases on factory barrels copper more, with Rem probably the worse. I still remember the early tests with bullets keyholing after 15 to 20 rounds due to fouling. My first .17 barrel never lost accuracy at 300 rounds, but I cleaned it then just for spite.
: I believe Ackman cleans around the 500 or 600 round level, without any coppering in his custom barrel.
: In summary, the barrel will tell you how often it needs to be cleaned.
: Improper cleaning, according to my way of thinking, is using no bore guide. The best method is to use a case soldered to a brass tube, that is bushed to fit the action. That way, the brush or patch is guided straight into the bore. Bore guides that stop at the chamber's base, don't guide as well, but are better than no guide - my opinion.
: Kenny 'Sicero' makes a good guide, cheaply, for several different actions.
; Sorry for rambling, too bad, so sad.
; Range- I/ve killed gohpers to 430 yards with the .17AH (25gr Vmax at 3,640fps) and 454 yards with a CZ .22 Hornet(40gr. Nosler at 3,357fps) I've not shot any coyotes with a .17, but the Hornet slays them instantly out to 200 yards with 45gr. Hornady's at 3,200fps muzzle vel. You've got to hit them in the appropriate place. I once had a working aquaintance who couldn't keep one anchored at any range with is .243 with the factory ammo he was using. With 75gr. HP's at max. velocity, even his normal gut shots worked.
Daryl

Last edited by Daryl; 10-02-2006 at 07:31 PM.
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