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  #1  
Old 11-12-2009, 12:43 PM
RebelSquirrel RebelSquirrel is offline
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Default 17 Mach IV vs. 17 Fireball

Cooper is pimping the 17 Fireball now over the 17 Mach IV, although they still offer the Mach IV chambering.

I see with the 17 Fireball there is commercial brass and being its a Remington owned caliber I wonder if they'll be possibly offering Lapua brass here shortly as Remington bought Dakota this past Summer.... Dakota having an insider with Lapua.


How much difference is there between the 17 Fireball and 17 Mach IV? What are some of the advantages and disadvantages of both calibers besides having to make brass for the 17 Mach IV?
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Old 11-12-2009, 02:26 PM
jim barker jim barker is offline
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I've been taking Mach IV brass and running it through a 17FB full length die and shooting. Neck is a little short but they seem to shot just fine in my SPS.
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Old 11-12-2009, 02:53 PM
Alex Alex is offline
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Default Not enough difference to talk about!

Unless you don't reload! If you had a bunch of 17M4's and wanted another Cooper in a different configuration, I would certainly buy the 17M4, but if it is your first Cooper in 17M4/17FB, I'd go for the FB.

Forming brass for the 17M4 from 221FB brass isn't a big deal, and is a touch easier than forming 17AH from 22 H, but only because the headspace problem is a very little bit easier to solve.

Alex
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Old 11-12-2009, 04:56 PM
montdoug montdoug is offline
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I agree with Alex, forming brass for the MachIV is a snap but it does take forming dies $$$. I don't think there's a chance in the world Remington will bring out Lapua brass for the .17 Fire Ball but I sure hope I'm wrong for those who want it. You can form .221 brass from .223 such as Lapua and then down to MachIV but again more dies $$$. Another situation that will hopefully resolve itself is from what I hear, in a world of difficult to find brass the .221 parent case needed to form MachIV (barring making it $$$) is particularly difficult to latch on to. That would be the logistical issues I'd consider keeping in mind that forming cases etc. is a large part of the appeal to wildcats for most of us and could as easily be a positive as a negative depending on your point of view. One other thing to possibly consider is resale, it "might" be a bit easier to sell a factory chambered rifle to some who might not enjoy wildcatting. Decisions, decisions .
As Alex stated there isn't 27cents worth of difference ballistically between em, I have both. Both are great by the way so that helps the decision process. .
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Old 11-12-2009, 06:08 PM
Chuck Miller Chuck Miller is offline
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Default differences

I don't remember who did this but I got it off Saubier.

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  #6  
Old 11-12-2009, 11:23 PM
Alex Alex is offline
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Smile Maybe only 26 cents!

The largest difference in the specs is 5 thou, with the brass oal difference of 12 thou. That's no more than the difference between batches of 221FB brass.

I've run 17FB brass through my 17M4 FL die and it chambered just fine. Used the same Competition Case Holder so the headspace was the same, and had at it. Doug is correct, the major difference is that the 17M4 from 221FB or 223 brass is just more expensive. Years ago, (like in 1999) there was a "big scare" that Remington was going to stop making the 221FB. I bought into that scare and bought 8000 cases, as at the time I had 5 17M4's. Still have 5, but not all the same ones. Some of the brass was pretty soft. I don't think I'm going to run out before I burn up the guns, but occasionally I've bought a few of different batches. The recent 17FB stuff is about the same as the older 221FB stuff.

Alex
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Old 11-13-2009, 12:51 AM
RebelSquirrel RebelSquirrel is offline
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Alex, I sure am glad you bought yourself enough cases! And with 5 guns of the same caliber I guess its safe to say you LIKE the 17 Mach IV just a little bit.


That article you e-mailed me TWICE now got me so excited about the 17AH that I ordered a second Cooper M38, suppose to have it February right after the first one in January. #2 17AH is your favorite... a Phoenix! An M38 Phoenix with a 22" barrel, Christensen carbon fiber wrapped. Everytime I read something inside here from a 17AH poster it really gets my juices flowing, January cannot come any faster, its agonizing. I'm soo excited I could pee-pee in my pants.

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Old 11-13-2009, 11:04 PM
RebelSquirrel RebelSquirrel is offline
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Forgot to ask.....


Which BANGS louder.... Mach IV/Fireball or the 17REM?
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  #9  
Old 11-14-2009, 12:36 AM
Alex Alex is offline
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Talking You wouldn't believe...

... how much louder the 17Rem is than the 17FB/M4!

At one time I had two identical 17M4 and 17Rem's. Both were 20 inch barrelers. I'd shot the 17M4 several times without hearing protection, but didn't make a habit of it.

So, one New Years day, I was taking the holiday debris to the local dump, and on the way out noticed a skunk in the field behind the dump. Took the 17Rem and shooting stix and walked about 100 yards and set up. Realized I didn't have my ear plugs. "What the heck," I thought, "I've shot the 17M4 without my plugs and it was loud, but didn't hurt." WRONG! My ears rang for a week or more, and I'm sure I lost at least 10 dB of my already bad hearing.

Sold the gun that Spring, very foolishly. Sure would liked to have had it rebarrelled to 20VT.

Alex
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  #10  
Old 11-14-2009, 01:19 AM
RicN RicN is offline
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Reb,
Your excitment is justified as nobody has too many 17AH's; 4 in my safe.
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