.17 javelina project - need input.
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Posted by: jim saubier
11/19/2001, 11:52:54

 Just got my .17 Javelina reamer packed in it's nice little walnut box (nice touch) from Manson reamers. I had a gift certificate from Benchrest school for a reamer of my choice. I chose the .17 Javelina for it's size to shoot the 30 grain bullets with some efficiency.

I have a model 700 classic chambered in .17 Remington that I was going to rebarrel with the Javelina. What barrel contour would I need to duplicate the factory taper and re-use the factory stock.

I was considering using a Wilson barrel on this gun but they only offer a 1-10 twist which should stabilize the 30 grain bullet. I was originally planning on a 1-9 twist barrel for this gun - any concerns with a 10 twist. I hope to shoot either the 25's or 30's. I also hope to have this thing built by spring. While I have it apart, I am gonna have the action trued as well.


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Re: .17 javelina project - need input.
Re: .17 javelina project - need input. -- jim saubier Top of thread Archive
Posted by: JD ®
11/19/2001, 14:33:46
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not sure on twist but as for barrel I would go big. i like big and I have a semi inletted stock for my 700 classic that need to be finished and formed up a bit, it is thumb hole whish would be good for the bench, not good for a walker


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Re: .17 javelina project - need input.
Re: .17 javelina project - need input. -- jim saubier Top of thread Archive
Posted by: Drifter
11/19/2001, 17:42:46

 Hey Jim,

That sounds like a sweet prodject. I have thought about doing the same with my classic when it's time to rebarrel , only to a 17m4. what are you having to do to modify the action to reliably feed the Javelina, or will it work without modification.

I have priced pac nor barrels and they look like they are pretty reasonable price wise, have you checked them out ? just wondering.

Oh yeah, thanks for the advice on the starkes for fox, I have taken a few with the 17m4 and the 25grpvb's , no exits and great performance. I will try to post some pics here when they come back.

see ya


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Re: .17 javelina project - need input.
Re: Re: .17 javelina project - need input. -- Drifter Top of thread Archive
Posted by: jim saubier
11/20/2001, 10:20:12

 Should work just fine. The Javelina is based on the .222 case and is just a little shorter than the .17 remington but has the same case head. That is one reason that I decided to go with the Javelina, so I could use the magazine. Not sure, but imagine that the Mach IV would feed fine as well, but I wanted the bigger Javelina to push the 30 grain bullets.

Glad to hear of your success with the Starkes - I love 'em.


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Re: .17 javelina project - need input.
Re: .17 javelina project - need input. -- jim saubier Top of thread Archive
Posted by: Hope Carleton
11/20/2001, 05:00:36

 Jim,
Al Nyhus completed a Javelina project and would be good source of some of the info you seek. I know he visits this board on occasion but may also be contacted on the GGVB or Benchrest Central. Good luck with your project.


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Re: .17 javelina project - need input.
Re: .17 javelina project - need input. -- jim saubier Top of thread Archive
Posted by: Dan C
11/20/2001, 20:36:09

 Jim, I think you'll be fine with the 10-twist. My Javelina shoots Kindler 29's spectacularly out of it's 10-twist, and they are at least as long as the Berger 30's. The Kindler 27 gr. will NOT work however. For barrels, you might consider a Pac-Nor 3 groove design for better throat life.

The barrel makers I'm familiar with do not offer a factory Remington sporter contour. You can get the muzzle dia the same, but the contour will be different. There will generally be a staight cylindrical section 2-3 inches long at the chamber end, where the Remington begins tapering almost immediately. Most makers, of course, will duplicate your Remington barrel for an additional fee. I'd rather spend the extra money on a first-class pillar bedding job and have the forend opened up to match whatever barrel you decide on. If you are going to pony up for a custom barrel and action truing, don't skimp on the bedding job. Have a pro do it.

Speaking of action truing, make sure you are not paying somebody to just face off the front of the receiver, which does absolutely nothing and won't be square with the receiver threads anyway. For a GOOD action job, look to Greg Tannel of Gre-Tan Rifles. The man is an artist and meticulous machinist who will make a Remington action as good as it can possibly be. See www.gtrtooling.com for details. Check out his procedure for truing for a better understanding of how he does it. His chambers have to be seen to be believed as well. Also consider having the firing pin hole bushed to .062" while you are at it for top performance by totally eliminating primer flow. Let me know how it goes...........

Dan C


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Re: .17 javelina project - need input.
Re: .17 javelina project - need input. -- jim saubier Top of thread Archive
Posted by: Al Nyhus ®
11/20/2001, 21:38:36
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Jim, I am working with a .17 Javelina that was built for me by SGR Custom Rifles (Stan Ware). I'll give a bit of specifics on the gun as well as my feelings about this case...here we go.

The reamer was a Pacific four flute reamer with floating pilots, a .196 neck diameter and .038 freebore. The action is a short 700 that had been trued and fitted with a one piece bolt sleeve to reduce the bolt-to-reciever clearance. This was done after the reciever was inside bored to equalize the front and rear inside dimensions. The barrel is a Lilja 1:9 twist #5 @ 24" long. Trigger is a reworked Remington. I pillar bedded it into a Lone Wolf "MAXX" series BDL stock that is white with blue and grey marbling for Winter camo.

For brass, I used Winchester 222 cases that were weight sorted. They were formed in a set of RCBS forming dies that my friend Pat Cameron loaned me, therby saving me the expense of purchasing them....more on this later. I use a Redding full length die and a Wilson neck die and seater.

The best powder I have found so far has been N135. This will give 3950-3980 fps with charge weights in the high 19-low 20 gr. area. Accuracy averages in the low-mid.3's for 5 shot groups with the Berger 25 gr. match bullet. Other powders that work well are Benchmark and N130.

I would really advise you to have the 'smith doing your gun bush the firing pin hole and set the pin diameter at .062 with about a .002 pin-to-hole clearance. This, along with a spring that meets the factory rating (Wolff makes an excellent replacement spring...the factory Remington springs are usually 5-6 lbs. off on pressure, even when new...VERY IMPORTANT!!!)will allow you to operate at the upper limits of pressure without primer problems. I think the biggest problem with the .17's is that the flash hole diameter is way too large relative to the bore size. This can cause, I feel, exaggerated primer "pressures" and the piercing and other problems that seem to plague these .17'S. I've been on the trail of some small flash hole cases to test, but so far no luck.

Before you purchase a set of forming dies, try using a .17 Remington case and a bit of Imperial lube and running it thru a Javelina full length die...the results may surprise you! The .17 Rem. cases are very good, and the are annealed quite a bit from the factory.

All in all, I have to say that while I like the Javelina very much, it really hasn't done anything that the .17 Remington hasn't done for me. I've had several .17 Rems. that Stan Ware has done for me, and they all shot very well with much less case forming hassle and hoopla. Unfortunately, most .17 Remington reamers that are in the hands of gunsmiths are based on SAMMI specs that no longer apply to the currently available .17 Rem brass. This is why there are still a lot of .17 Rems that experience split necks, short case life, etc. etc, even though they were built by good 'smiths with aftermarket barrels.

SGR's reamer ws designed so the current brass will work with a minimum of neck working and still allow the chambering of factory ammo if need be.

All in all, I've enjoyed working with the Javelina. Stan Ware at SGR Custom Rifles has once again built me a gun that shows excellent accuracy and workmanship, as do all of Stan's rifles. I'm sure I'll be happy with it on fox this Winter. All in all though, I feel the Javelina is too much work to mess with, IF your gunsmith has a proven .17 Remington reamer. If not, I'd try forming up some .17 Rem. cases into Javelina cases before buying a form die set and go from there. If this works for you, you'll save the cost of a form die set and only have some time invested in case making.

Hope this helps some...others may have differen thoughts on it. Good shootin'. -Al.




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Re: .17 javelina project - need input.
Re: Re: .17 javelina project - need input. -- Al Nyhus Top of thread Archive
Posted by: jim saubier
11/21/2001, 09:30:50

 Thanks a heap for the information. I purchased the Javelina reamer already and hope to make the best of it. As for the gunsmith, I am having my benchrest gunsmith do the work and I will certainly make sure that he addresses the concerns that you mention. I really want this to be a light carry gun for foxes, woodchucks and coyote(some day) that will shoot extremely well. I haven't decided on the barrel make yet, but will need to get something on order by the end of the year in order to get this thing done for spring.

By the way, the .30BR is shooting very well. More range time and I'll be set.


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Re: .17 javelina project - need input.
Re: Re: .17 javelina project - need input. -- jim saubier Top of thread Archive
Posted by: Al Nyhus ®
11/21/2001, 18:37:03
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Jim, I've used both Lilja and Shilen .17 cal. barrels and have been very pleased with each brand. If your reamer doesn't have a removable pilot, I'd be sure and find out what the diameter is of the pilot on your reamer (to the ten-thousandths) and compare it with the land dimensions on different barrel mfgs. .17 barrels. This will assure you of the best fit between the pilot and the barrel. The best way is to use a reamer with removeable pilots that can be fitted exactly to the 'smiths satisfaction. Your reamer can be refitted with removable pilots also.

On another area, you mentioned that you'd like the Javelina to be able to feed from a magazine. Jim, you will have problems with this. Mine is set up as a single shot, but even this sometimes requires a gentle nudge from the finger to get the bullet into the chamber area when loading a new round. I have my doubts that it would feed well from a magazine, but perhaps a suitable follower could be worked up. The problem lies in the short, fat case. The gentle sloped case of the .17 Rem. is why they feed well........just a bit of a heads up on this. -Al.


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experience appreciated
Re: Re: .17 javelina project - need input. -- Al Nyhus Top of thread Archive
Posted by: jim saubier
11/25/2001, 07:23:11

 Thanks al for all of the good information. My reamer is from Dave Manson, not sure what the pilot diameter is but will measure with the 0-1 micrometer to find out.

I was assuming (dangerous I know) that it would feed from the .17 Remington current set up. Wasn't even thinking that there would be enough difference to hurt anything. I will give it a try to make it a repeater anyway, and if I fail will probably put in a single shot follower. Maybe, I should have stuck with the .17 Remington, a quality barrel and min spec reamer. Too late now, on with the Javelina.


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Javelina feeding
Re: experience appreciated -- jim saubier Top of thread Archive
Posted by: Al Nyhus ®
11/25/2001, 08:13:02
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Jim, I'm going to tinker a bit with a few different followers over the next day or so and see what I can come up with. I'll post it here or let you know how it turns out. -Al.


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Re: Javelina feeding
Re: Javelina feeding -- Al Nyhus Top of thread Archive
Posted by: jim saubier
11/25/2001, 10:24:08

 I certainly would appreciate it. I am not too far in the project yet and have some time, but want this gun to be able to feed from the magazine. It is to be my hunting gun for calling foxes or carrying in the field after woodchucks. I like the single shots too, but if I wanted a single shot, I would get another encore barrel chambered with my reamer. I have a number of contender and encore barrels in the .17's, I want to have a good bolt action now for the above purposes.


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Re: Javelina feeding
Re: Re: Javelina feeding -- jim saubier Top of thread Archive
Posted by: Dan C
11/25/2001, 18:15:56

 Jim, I believe that the Javelina can be made to feed, although it may be a little marginal. I had a Model 7 that I was able to successfully modify to feed 221 Fireball, then the 20 VarTarg. Both, of course, are even shorter than the Javelina. You will have to fabricate a spacer for the rear of the magazine box, approx 1/4" thick, and shorten rear of the follower a like amount. If you run into ejection problems as I did, you will have to modify the ejector to increase it's stroke, letting it protrude a bit farther out from the bolt face. What happens with the short cartridge is this: As the fired case is withdrawn to clear the chamber, the ejector forces the case sideways against the inside of the receiver. Since the Fireball (and Jav) cases are shorter than usual, the angle that the case reaches before clearing the port is greater. In some cases, the ejector simply runs out of reach, and the case falls off the extractor as it is no longer under tension. The fix is simple, just file or 'dremel' the retainer notch rearward slightly to let the ejector travel out farther. Even with the bolt nose is about right...........hope this helps you out.

Dan C


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Thanks for the help.
Re: Re: Javelina feeding -- Dan C Top of thread Archive
Posted by: jim saubier
11/27/2001, 07:43:05

 I think that I can make this thing feed with the Javelina. But wouldn't have known the issues without you. Thanks.


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Re: .17 javelina project - need input.
Re: .17 javelina project - need input. -- jim saubier Top of thread Archive
Posted by: corbin shell
11/21/2001, 17:45:23

 Jim,
I have told you that its a lot of extra work doing anything other than a .17 rem and you are not going to get the performance of the .17rem. Guess some guys never learn )))
Good luck with your project. Just think,all that time to prep brass could have been used shooting and learning the wind. When you get it done why dont you plan a trip to NC and we can do some 600 yard shooting with it.
Take care and favor center.
Corbin


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